"Patriots Day"

[00:00:00] Speaker A: The inside story of the world's greatest manhunt. We are the spy fi guys, and this is Patriots Day. Welcome to the spy fi guys, where we cover spy facts, spy fiction, and everything in between. I'm Christian. [00:00:22] Speaker B: And I'm Zach. [00:00:23] Speaker A: And today we have for you Patriots Day, the 2016 film about the Boston marathon bombing. [00:00:33] Speaker B: Right. So this movie I remember was the original too soon movie. [00:00:38] Speaker A: Really? [00:00:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Do you remember this? [00:00:40] Speaker A: I do not. [00:00:42] Speaker B: Only a couple of months in my memory since the bombing, they announced that they were making the movie really? Three years after the event itself. That's ridiculously soon. [00:00:54] Speaker A: What's the gap between. Well, okay, this is going to go back. The events, and breach. Oh, that's five years, because that happened in 2002. All right. [00:01:05] Speaker B: Sure. And breach is not a national tragedy. [00:01:08] Speaker A: True. [00:01:09] Speaker B: I'd be curious when the first 911 movie, like, mainstream 911 movie was. [00:01:14] Speaker A: I don't think there was a united flight. [00:01:18] Speaker B: Yeah, there was flight 93. [00:01:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I would call that mainstream. [00:01:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:01:22] Speaker B: When did it come out, though? [00:01:24] Speaker A: Let's see. [00:01:25] Speaker B: It came out in 2006. Yeah. But then, of course, here's a little trivia for you, Christian. The original too soon movie was they made a Titanic movie like the same year that the Titanic sank. [00:01:40] Speaker C: Wow. [00:01:41] Speaker B: Survivors of the Titanic, as actors. [00:01:44] Speaker A: Oh, hold on. [00:01:45] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:01:45] Speaker A: Okay, let's see. Actually, let me call that, because there's also back to Baton, which is a World War II movie about the Baton Death march, which had actual people who participated in the Baton death march in it. That came out in 1945. The actual 41 to 42 was the actual battle. Three years, not in the same year, but still. [00:02:15] Speaker B: Yeah, this isn't the soonest movie, but certainly in our modern age. In my memory, the original too soon movie. [00:02:22] Speaker A: Interesting. [00:02:23] Speaker D: Yeah, I could see that. [00:02:25] Speaker A: I didn't clock it. I knew that it came out in 2016 and the actual event happened in 2013, but I didn't clock that. Oh, that's very close. So they must have been in production probably at least the year before. That's 2015. That's two years later. I don't know. [00:02:41] Speaker B: A couple of things. How well do you remember the boss involving. [00:02:45] Speaker D: That is an interesting question. [00:02:46] Speaker A: So I remember that it happened. I remember that there was a manhunt, but I do not remember the results of it. I know that they found the people responsible, but I do not remember who they were, nor what their motivations were, which in a way, I think is good, because we're sort of remembering the people, the victims supposed to glorifying the people that carried it out. Except looking back, I do have a recollection of the Rolling Stone cover. [00:03:18] Speaker B: Yes, I also thought of that and I'm surprised it wasn't in the movie. [00:03:21] Speaker A: But it also makes sense because the movie ends at a certain point and we'll get to it there. But that happens after, really after the storyline of our movie ends. [00:03:32] Speaker B: Sure. [00:03:33] Speaker A: And they wouldn't want to bring that up again because I remember it was such a controversy putting him on there. [00:03:37] Speaker B: It's practically a whole movie in and of itself. Yeah, right. [00:03:41] Speaker A: I mean, even think about. So this was what, eleven years? I mean, if we had planned this out better, we maybe pushed it back to April on actual Patriots Day, but we don't plan. [00:03:52] Speaker B: But come on, we did the 79th anniversary of D Day. We never do anything when we're supposed to do it. [00:03:58] Speaker A: Good point. We at least had our Pearl harbor. Two Pearl harbor episodes released right around Pearl Harbor Day. [00:04:07] Speaker B: Yeah, that was the one time we didn't totally screw it up, but it. [00:04:10] Speaker A: Wasn'T on any anniversary, if I remember. Oh, well, that's okay. I was here, which, and I do have some family who's in that Boston area, and I know they all have their own sort of stories about. But no one was in Boston proper, if I recall. [00:04:25] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. It was pretty wild. And before we get to the movie, I just want to dispute the tagline. This clearly is not the world's greatest manhunt. Obviously, the search for Osama bin Laden. [00:04:36] Speaker A: I was going to say this might. [00:04:39] Speaker B: Have been America's biggest. [00:04:44] Speaker A: American domestic manhunt. Sure about the mean. [00:04:49] Speaker B: Yeah, there's been a lot of them, but wow, a movie tagline that exaggerates. Who would have imagined such a thing? [00:04:56] Speaker A: Have you seen this movie before? [00:04:58] Speaker B: No, I have. [00:04:58] Speaker A: I had not. [00:04:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, when it came out, I was like, it's too soon. And I never had much interest in seeing it, but I also knew it was pretty well regarded. [00:05:08] Speaker C: Interesting. [00:05:09] Speaker D: Okay, so I definitely confused this for. [00:05:12] Speaker A: Another film at first because there's a movie that came out, I think, around the same time. Let me double check. Oh, no. It came out earlier called Vantage Point, which is about an assassination of a us president. But it's like told from all these multiple viewpoints. And I confused, mixed up these two in my head. Did they do like a multiple viewpoint on. And they kind of did, but not really here. [00:05:39] Speaker D: Actually. [00:05:40] Speaker A: They focus on a few different viewpoints, but not as much as Vantage point is kind of like a Rashiman style telling of the same thing. But I think that would be another interesting movie to cover a podcast, but later. [00:05:53] Speaker B: Yeah. So it turns out neither of us saw this movie. One of us thought they might have, but not so. [00:05:57] Speaker C: No. [00:05:57] Speaker A: I never saw Vantage point either. [00:05:58] Speaker D: But I just knew that. [00:06:02] Speaker B: Here's the poetry synopsis. I must say, after watching it, I wasn't in a very poetic mood. [00:06:07] Speaker D: Fair. [00:06:08] Speaker B: Then inspiration struck later. [00:06:10] Speaker A: So here's the haiku. [00:06:11] Speaker B: Well, I guess you can decide how much you like the results. Here's the haiku. Marathon attack Manhunt for Bomber Brothers. You can't stop them. [00:06:24] Speaker D: Right? All right, that's pretty good. [00:06:26] Speaker B: I feel that kind of covers the movie. And then here's the limerick. Boston went from hooray to foul play when two murderers did have their say. A lockdown did ensue by the heroes in blue, and it went down on Patriots Day. [00:06:42] Speaker D: Okay. [00:06:42] Speaker A: You know what I mean? I was like, for such a somber movie, a real life event, how are. [00:06:49] Speaker D: You going to make a limerick? [00:06:50] Speaker A: But you did a good job. [00:06:52] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:06:54] Speaker A: You made it respectful, but also still rhyming, but good job. All right, let's get our actual IMDb plot synopsis. [00:07:01] Speaker B: Yes. The story of the 2013 Boston marathon bombing and the aftermath, which includes the citywide manhunt to find the terrorists responsible. [00:07:10] Speaker A: All right. [00:07:10] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:07:11] Speaker A: To the point. Succinct. We start off, and we meet Boston PD Sergeant Tommy Saunders, who's on a raid of the sorts. He's looking for a guy. I definitely thought this was going to be, like, some sort of bait and switch, and he was not actually looking for a criminal. He was, like, looking for his daughter or something who was out drinking or something. I didn't know the tone of this film. And considering it's Mark Wahlberg and I've seen him in comedic stuff, in my mind, the first thing that comes up is him in that Transformers movie, which I never actually saw, but I think we got a transformer that's in my mind. [00:07:49] Speaker B: Mark Wahlberg, to me, it's the departed, which is probably his greatest role, where he is the comic I have not seen. [00:07:57] Speaker D: Really? [00:07:57] Speaker A: Okay, well, don't spoil it for me. I need to see it. I was on a binge of Scorsese mob movies. It's on the list. [00:08:07] Speaker B: This beginning is, like, the one funny part of the whole movie, pretty much, except for a rod line here. And. [00:08:14] Speaker D: But, yeah. [00:08:15] Speaker A: So with that tone, I was like, is this a bait and switch? [00:08:17] Speaker D: Is this going to be. [00:08:18] Speaker A: But no, he's actually looking for a. [00:08:20] Speaker D: Guy who's like, I don't know what the deal with this is. [00:08:23] Speaker A: He got hit over the head with a smoothie. We find out when he means smoothie, he means, like, an iron. [00:08:28] Speaker B: Yeah, the guy's, like an idiot or something. And everyone's got those Boston accents, which is great. [00:08:33] Speaker D: Oh, the accents. [00:08:35] Speaker A: But what we find out about Tommy. [00:08:38] Speaker D: Is that basically, he's having to pull. [00:08:40] Speaker A: All these terrible shifts and punishment duties due to some incident in his past. [00:08:44] Speaker D: He kicked someone. So he's having to pull terrible shifts and sort of like, punishment duties due to this incident in his past. The commissioner even comes by while they're doing this raid, and Tommy tries to convince him to let Tommy out of duties of the Boston marathon. The next morning, he is denied, but he's told that after he does that, he's out of the doghouse. [00:09:09] Speaker B: So I like this. It is similar to the cop last day before retirement, but it's a good explanation for why he's at the marathon, even though he's a detective and will be involved in the manhunt later. So it all checks out. [00:09:21] Speaker C: I like that. [00:09:22] Speaker D: Is he a detective, or is he still a sergeant? Was he a detective before? [00:09:26] Speaker B: Oh, that's a good question. No, I think he is a. Oh, yeah. [00:09:30] Speaker D: Anyways, we also meet Tommy's wife, Carol, played by Michelle Monahan, with a terrible Boston accent. [00:09:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, a lot of people's accents go in and out in this movie. And. Played by Michelle Monaghan, wife of the heroes. [00:09:47] Speaker D: Yeah. But I guess because I'm more familiar with her work that I really noticed it. So we also meet a bunch of other characters here, including this couple, Patrick and Jessica. Jessica is played by our future lois laid, Rachel Brosnahan. [00:10:02] Speaker C: Very nice. [00:10:03] Speaker D: We also have a father and son, Steve and Leo. We meet some MIT students, including Lee, played by Lana Condor, who's been in a bunch of stuff, as well as her love interest, who's MIT officer Sean Collier, or he's not an officer at MIT. Well, he's a police officer who's stationed at MIT. [00:10:22] Speaker B: This is interesting. He does the move where you don't invite the girl out. You invite her and all her friends out. Yeah, it's so like high school. They're not that far removed from high school, so it makes sense. [00:10:40] Speaker D: And then we also meet Don Meng, who's a chinese immigrant who's played by Jimmy O. Yang. This is very different for him, for me, because I know him as a stand up comic. I've seen him in movies, particularly one love hard Christmas movie. Great. On Netflix. Recommend. [00:10:58] Speaker C: What? [00:10:59] Speaker B: That's your go to for Jimmy Yang's movies, not crazy rich Asians. [00:11:04] Speaker D: I forgot he was in Crazy Rich Asians, actually. [00:11:06] Speaker B: Or Silicon Valley, which I know is not a movie. [00:11:09] Speaker D: I've never actually seen Silicon Valley, but I've seen love hard more recently. Crazy Rich Asians I haven't seen since came out. What I feel like it's almost ten years now. [00:11:18] Speaker B: Yeah, probably the same time as this movie. [00:11:21] Speaker D: I've seen love actually, the last two Christmases. I've seen it twice. So. Yes. So recommend. Fun, but yeah, it's a very serious role for him. So it's very different. But he's good in it. But then we're also introduced to the Sarnev brothers, Tamerlan and Jokar, also called Jahar. [00:11:42] Speaker B: Nice job taking on those names. Those are tough names. [00:11:45] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:11:46] Speaker B: I just call them like big bro. [00:11:47] Speaker D: And little bro or white hat or black hat. [00:11:50] Speaker B: Yeah, that too. [00:11:52] Speaker D: Oh, I do that. But. And then we also meet Tamerlan's wife, Catherine, played by municipal Benoast, or however, last name tv Supergirl Benoist. Yeah. [00:12:04] Speaker C: Who. [00:12:04] Speaker B: It took me a while to recognize her without her hair. [00:12:06] Speaker D: I saw the trailer and I was like, he looks real familiar. And then I looked at the cast. Oh, it's Supergirl. That's weird. [00:12:13] Speaker B: That's right. [00:12:14] Speaker D: But there's a lot of good character stuff here. We beat a lot of people very quickly. [00:12:20] Speaker C: Yep. [00:12:20] Speaker B: And you know they're going to come together. But how keeps you. [00:12:25] Speaker D: We. Next day, we started the Boston marathon. Tommy is out there. Know, crossing guard, basically. [00:12:33] Speaker B: So actually, before that, we meet one more character, which is played by J. K. Simmons. [00:12:39] Speaker D: I bring him up later, but I wasn't sure how I forgot that he was in that part, too. Yeah. [00:12:44] Speaker B: Well, the only thing I want to point out is that when we first meet him, he goes to a Dunkin donuts to get his. [00:12:50] Speaker D: So, Boston. [00:12:51] Speaker B: Well, it is Boston, but it also feels like a product placement because it's Dunkin'donuts stuff everywhere. [00:12:57] Speaker D: That is how Dunkin'donuts is. [00:12:59] Speaker B: The best product placements are where it works within the context of the. [00:13:02] Speaker D: And it totally works here because of course, you're going to be at a dunkin if you're in. [00:13:06] Speaker B: Yup. [00:13:07] Speaker D: Start the marathon. Tommy calls his wife to ask for his stronger brace, for his bad knee. That, know, overextended while kicking some guy in the teeth. [00:13:18] Speaker B: Yep. [00:13:19] Speaker D: But, yeah. So we see Patrick and Jessica, as well as Steve and his son Leo at the finish line. We get to see the first runner cross the finish line. I forgot what his name I was going to look up what it was. [00:13:30] Speaker B: But ethiopian runners, I think they said, I believe. [00:13:33] Speaker D: Yes. [00:13:34] Speaker B: Yeah. There's also a part where they have remembrance for the. Yeah, the Newton school shooting, which I thought was an interesting choice. [00:13:44] Speaker D: Yeah. Well, I assume that actually happened. Well, not obviously the shooting happened, but I assume that the remembrance happened in real life. And at least for this part, they're trying to skew as close as possible to real life events. [00:13:58] Speaker C: Sure. [00:13:58] Speaker B: This is an interesting choice to put in the movie. I wonder if it's like, this is America. You're never too far from a tragedy. [00:14:05] Speaker D: No matter where, you know. We'll talk about that more when we get his speech later. But yes, I think so. I think it is definitely intentional. [00:14:13] Speaker B: The thing with these based on true stories movies is they're not always necessarily having the same message as fictional ones, because real life doesn't always have a message. Sometimes real life just is what it is. And in this case, more than most. [00:14:27] Speaker D: We also see the Sarnav brothers with backpacks, and we see them leave them at certain parts, and then we get the moment that we're all right. [00:14:39] Speaker B: So not for the first time in this movie, it was like a horror movie where you're just waiting for the killer to pop out of the basement, especially when you see all the normal people looking. Totally. [00:14:49] Speaker D: Yeah, that's what I was about. Especially the ones who were introduced to. I mean, the one with, like, Steve and his son Leo. That's the one that was, like, getting me like, oh, God, he is right next to them. Do not tell me the kid is going to die in this. [00:15:03] Speaker B: Well, I mean, did you remember that a kid was killed in the Boston marathon bombing? [00:15:06] Speaker D: Not. [00:15:07] Speaker B: Oh, I remembered that. But I also knew that the kid was nine, so I was like, the kid's too old to die, fortunately. Or too young, rather. Excuse me. [00:15:15] Speaker D: Yeah, I did not remember that. So that one was like, oh, I was just dreading and anticipating. And the thing about this one, did they use real shots from the actual thing here? [00:15:28] Speaker B: Yes. [00:15:29] Speaker D: Okay. Like, all the security footage feels like it's like. Or at least most of it feels like it's real footage. [00:15:36] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. [00:15:37] Speaker D: Okay. I wasn't sure. I didn't look it up. But a lot of this feels real. But also the parts where you see Mark Wahlberg, obviously not real footage, but the explosions feel like real explosions. Not your Hollywood style fireball explosions. They feel very real. Everything here is really chilling and it's really effective. [00:16:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I was going to say that, too. [00:16:02] Speaker D: I thought it was really effective, like to just give you that terror, that feel. Which accurate. Sure. [00:16:11] Speaker C: Was. [00:16:12] Speaker D: I prepared for it. Not really. So it got me. [00:16:17] Speaker B: Yeah, it got me to my girlfriend and I were watching it together and this movie kind of upset her a little bit. [00:16:23] Speaker D: Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. There's well done shots here where the camera falls down as if it is a person who's caught in the blast. And I know that that is just an effect that they're doing. They're just having the camera, but it still grips you like that. It's very well done. [00:16:41] Speaker B: It also topples over on some blood. [00:16:43] Speaker D: That's right. [00:16:44] Speaker B: Yeah, only a little bit, but still, I should say the movie also kind of upset me, too. But that's more later. [00:16:52] Speaker D: This part was the most upsetting for me. Like, the family is trying to find each other and thankfully Tommy finds his wife Carol, and she's know he has another officer bring her home. And at this point, Tommy is starting to take charge. He's getting medical personnel down to the finish line. We get some ambulances that are starting to get cleared through. We see know some of the couple that we met earlier, Jessica and Patrick, they're separated as they're being picked up. Steve separated from his son Leo. That was terrifying to me. It was just like, what if the kid has no identification on you? How are you going to find that kid later? [00:17:32] Speaker B: Yeah, it's going to be a while before. [00:17:34] Speaker D: That was terrifying to me. Yeah. Someone's bringing over a wheelchair for some of the wounded and they get run into by the runners. There are still runners who have no idea what's happening here. And they're coming through. [00:17:48] Speaker B: Yeah. I should say in a little levity, Mark Wahlberg's accent does kind of come back and forth in this part, which. [00:17:54] Speaker D: Is funny because that's his real accent, isn't it? [00:17:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:57] Speaker B: But he's also been an actor for a long time, so he's probably learned, and I also suspected, mentioned this to my girlfriend, too, that I think the reason why the death count was so low was because they had medical right there ready to treat people. [00:18:12] Speaker C: True. [00:18:12] Speaker B: If this were like in the middle of nowhere, it would be a different story, right? [00:18:16] Speaker D: Yeah, definitely. So as everyone is cleared out, the FBI arrives with Commissioner Davis, who is played by John Goodman. I don't think I mentioned that before. [00:18:26] Speaker B: Yes. [00:18:28] Speaker D: And he arrives with special agent in charge Richard Delarier, who is played by Kevin Bacon. [00:18:36] Speaker B: Yep, immediately recognizable Kevin Bacon. But he did a good job here. [00:18:39] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, he did a good job. Now there's a sticking point of that. There's still a body. Aforementioned child who died. His body is still right there. He was right next to one of the bombs, and it's still on the street. Thankfully, it's at least covered. But Tommy is, like, wanting to move the body immediately. Agent Delaria is like, no, we can't touch him, because until forensics gets him, there might be things on residue on the body or in his clothes that we can't move. [00:19:09] Speaker B: This is a very interesting conflict, and I quite liked it. You also had, which is such a cliche in cop movies, of FBI. We're taking over this investigation. You FBI don't know anything. Us small cops do. [00:19:24] Speaker D: It's kind of the reverse of because. So we have Commissioner Davis, like, asking DeLorea, saying we need to decide who takes charge. And Delorean is hesitant, as he says, like, basically, once we label it terrorism, there's no going back. It is jockeying, but it's like, we don't want to make the call if it's wrong. [00:19:53] Speaker B: Yeah, he says, it's like, if it's terrorism, it means media, it means the president, it means all this stuff. And then later, he's looking at something. He says it's terrorism. We'll take it. [00:20:02] Speaker D: Well, did you figure out what he picked up? [00:20:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a screw, right? [00:20:07] Speaker D: No, ball bearing. [00:20:09] Speaker C: A ball bearing. [00:20:10] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. [00:20:11] Speaker D: Which, if you see those, an explosion. That is a homemade explosive. [00:20:16] Speaker B: I guess it doesn't really. Does it prove it's terrorism or just a nut job with a grievance? I guess it's terrorism. [00:20:23] Speaker D: It may not be religious motivated terrorism, but it is terrorism. [00:20:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Either way, it's theirs. Did you notice the guy in the lobster costume? Do you have that? So we were confused about that because there's a part where he's like, get this guy out of here before the bombs go off. [00:20:43] Speaker D: He was just being annoying. Yeah, well, I don't know what the rules are for the Boston marathon. Maybe you're not supposed to have costumes while you're running the Boston Marathon. [00:20:52] Speaker B: I think your theory is correct. I think you are allowed to wear costumes. But the guy was, like, where he wasn't supposed to be for some reason. Some more nice levity in a movie that has very little. [00:21:03] Speaker D: So DeLorean makes the call. It's terrorism. And so, actually, I like to hear. I mean, there was a bit of jockeying, but not too much, at least not at the higher up levels. So Commissioner Davis asks, all right, what do you need? I need a really big command center. So they set one up in a warehouse. I like this. As they're recreating the scene with, like, tape, they're bringing over evidence taken from the site and marking where everything was found and setting up. All right. These are where the businesses are along the street. I was like, oh, so this is how you do an actual investigation. This is interesting. [00:21:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:41] Speaker B: I mean, it feels Hollywood, but it also not totally outside their own possibility. So it was very cool. [00:21:48] Speaker D: Also, just a brief talk about Commissioner Davis. So I don't know much about police commissioners, and my main point of reference for police commissioners is Commissioner Gord. [00:22:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I knew you were going to. [00:22:01] Speaker D: Say, oh, you have an idea what a police commissioner actually does? Are they a cop? Who is it? [00:22:08] Speaker B: Like, I think they run the police department in the city. [00:22:13] Speaker D: Okay. [00:22:14] Speaker B: So they're like the equivalent of the CEO, or I guess the equivalent of a general of the army. [00:22:20] Speaker D: Okay, so the portrayal of Commissioner Gordon is, like, as being the boss of the police department. That is a correct thing. It's not just. Yeah, I would say I was not actually sure. [00:22:32] Speaker B: So something that makes real life stories different from fictional stories is that there's lots and lots and lots of characters. So reading a real life, like a book, for example, about this, I've encountered this problem where there's so many characters and you can't remember who does what. This movie fortunately, kept it to a reasonable. [00:22:51] Speaker D: Yeah, it's. It's not like your Torah. Torah, Torah. Or you're the longest day where you have to have. I mean, they do do this with titles for people as they show up, but they only do it for the head, Hodges. Like the mayor, the police commissioner, FBI, et cetera. They don't do it for every single person, like, in the longest day or. Torah. Torah, Torah. [00:23:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:13] Speaker B: Good luck remembering them as well. [00:23:15] Speaker D: Commissioner Davis talks to the press. He addresses false reports that he had a suspect in custody. I don't remember. There was an ethnicity mentioned, but I don't remember what it was. [00:23:25] Speaker B: Yeah, they said a saudi national. [00:23:27] Speaker D: Saudi. Okay. I was like, is it Sudan? No. Okay. But he says that was completely false. But then he does ask the public to send in any photos or video that they have. And I like this part where DeLorean is like, oh, he's showing Davis the uploads. And, oh, we've crashed. Because there were that many uploads. [00:23:48] Speaker B: Yeah. A very real life problem, which I appreciate feels very real. [00:23:53] Speaker D: So the FBI analysts have to go through all the photos and videos that were submitted, as well as everything from the security cameras around the area, plus all the confiscated cell phones. So it's a lot of data that they had to scrub through. [00:24:08] Speaker B: So I wonder, and I did not find this in fact versus fiction, but it occurred to me just now, why are the guys at the scene being the ones to comb through everything? Isn't that what they have analysts at FBI headquarters for or the Boston field office? [00:24:23] Speaker D: Yes. And some of this may be just for Hollywood, but also I feel like there's that level of connection that you have. If you're there, you can immediately say, I have something, as opposed to sending an email, waiting for someone to read that email, respond to that email, and they can immediately ask you questions. [00:24:41] Speaker B: Yeah, we're trying to find somebody on the phone, play a little telephone tag. [00:24:45] Speaker D: So this may be for Hollywood, but that would be my assumption as to why it would be happening on the site there. [00:24:52] Speaker C: Yeah, there you go. [00:24:53] Speaker D: So Tommy, as this is all going through, speaks up and suggests going to the hospitals, get witness statements. He talks about, know, I just work homicide here, but I know that in know, what makes cases stick is witness statements. And so we need to go into the hospitals and talk to all of. [00:25:09] Speaker B: The victims, of which there are many. [00:25:12] Speaker D: Yes, there are many. And Deloria also makes a point that the bomber, because they don't know anything about him at this point, may be at one of the hospitals as well. So they need positive ids on anyone coming in and out of the hospitals, which is smart. So we go to see the hospitals, we see Jessica and Patrick, who are both injured. They both end up getting legs amputated. I think Jessica has both of them amputated, whereas Patrick just has the right leg. Yes, that's right. Left leg amputated. And then Tommy goes to get a witness statement from Steve, the father, who is still looking for Leo, his son. [00:25:53] Speaker C: Right. [00:25:54] Speaker B: And the body is still there, the body of the child victim. That was pretty interesting and informative in the movie. I think someone must have screwed up. [00:26:04] Speaker C: You think so? [00:26:05] Speaker B: I think someone was supposed to have sent a team much earlier. It shouldn't have taken them hours and hours and hours. Yeah, true. It's kind of like also when the runners keep coming through, and I think Mark Wahlberg even says somebody was supposed to have stopped them and someone. [00:26:19] Speaker D: Yeah. So we see an analyst get the first sighting of one of the bombers. It's a guy in a white hat who, when the explosion happens, he looks away from the explosion, whereas everyone looks towards it. [00:26:31] Speaker B: This was great. This part was great. I really liked it. And then the guy's like, sir, check this out. And Kevin Bacon's like, play it again. [00:26:40] Speaker D: So as they figure out, all right, where exactly the white hat would have been standing, Delore grabs Tommy and asks him to walk him through in reverse, which cameras would get a sight of white hat starting from whatsoever minute going backwards. And so they do this a couple of times. They get footage of him walking backwards from like. He's like, all right, is it the cvs? I don't remember what all this specific businesses are. He's like, oh, wait, this 1 bar I know just installed some cameras in the back. Those might have it, too, which was like, this is a good idea, using your local police. [00:27:19] Speaker B: Yeah, it explains why Tommy's there and why they have to keep coming up with reasons for him to be there. I feel like we've seen other movies, like, oh, it's like 13 days with Kenny. They have to keep explaining why Kenny has to be around. [00:27:32] Speaker D: Interesting. I've never actually seen 13 days. I'm thinking of 13 hours, not 13 days. Yes. Oh, that's right. I forgot about. [00:27:43] Speaker C: Kenny. [00:27:44] Speaker D: But yes, I like this, though. You're using all the people, you're using resources. You might not necessarily have that knowledge of every street there, but your beat cops will. And so they work backwards, and until they finally get a photo of white hat next to another guy in a black hat with sunglasses. [00:28:02] Speaker B: And I do kind of remember this picture. [00:28:06] Speaker D: Some of this started to come back to me, too. But apparently this image, even though it looks relatively clear, it's too grainy and it can't get facial rec on it. [00:28:17] Speaker B: Yeah, well, facial recognition was still early technology. [00:28:20] Speaker D: Yeah, ten years ago or eleven years ago. So, yes, Tommy finally goes home, and there's a bunch of friends and neighbors who potentially family who are there, and they're all, like, demanding answers from Tommy. Shouts at them all to get out in much more colorful language. [00:28:37] Speaker B: Yeah, much more bostonian language. But to be fair to, like, nobody knows anything and they know that he was mean. [00:28:45] Speaker D: I get both sides. But I also like he saw things there. So his wife is. Carol is consoling him. He's clearly shaken up by what he saw, but he's also very shaken up by the fact that Carol could have been hurt and that it would have been his fault because he asked her to come down there. And she wouldn't have been there if not for him asking to bring his brace. [00:29:07] Speaker B: Yeah, this is Mark Wahlberg's big acting Oscar scene. I don't mean to be cynical about it, he did do a good job. And it goes to show that, I guess I don't know if we want to talk about this now or if we'll talk about it later. Do you think in, like, 50 years, people are going to remember the Boston marathon bombing? Because fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on your point of view, the death count was low. It was a relatively low level terrorist attack. [00:29:32] Speaker D: Considering the fact that I didn't even remember the names of the bombers or it only had a vague recollection, I think maybe not. I think in 50 years. Yeah, it'll be a footnote. [00:29:47] Speaker B: I know it's troubling. I read a book recently about the bombing of the Los Angeles Times building by pro union criminals, and it took place in 1910. To be fair, it took place in 1910. [00:30:02] Speaker D: All right. Yeah. [00:30:03] Speaker B: Before we had 4k ultra video, 75 people were killed, and nobody knows about it. Right. It's a footnote of history. [00:30:12] Speaker D: You said 75 people. [00:30:14] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:15] Speaker D: Even think about, like, the Tulsa race massacre. Not a lot of people knew about that, honestly, until it was in the Watchmen tv show. [00:30:24] Speaker B: Well, I mean, that's why you have movies like this. [00:30:27] Speaker D: Yeah. So maybe because there is this movie more people remember. [00:30:32] Speaker B: I hope so. But where I'm going with this scene, though, is like, yeah, only three people were killed, which, on the scale of terrorism is pretty low. But almost 300 were wounded. And a wound is bad if you lose a limb. Right. And then how many more people were. [00:30:47] Speaker D: Just like Tommy, who were just traumatized or shell shocked? [00:30:50] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely not all the injury is. [00:30:55] Speaker D: Let me rephrase my answer to this. If you're from Boston, you'll remember it in 50 years. [00:31:01] Speaker B: Well, that was something else that kind of upset me about the movie. I remember the country moved on pretty fast from that. Yeah, but Boston didn't. [00:31:13] Speaker D: No. [00:31:14] Speaker B: At least I hope they didn't. I don't think they did. [00:31:16] Speaker D: But the rest of us, 2013, thinking about back to that time. Well, I don't know. I mean, at this point, the years are blending together, and our generations just lived through so much. [00:31:29] Speaker B: I also think, to be fair, they got the guys, like, immediately. If they hadn't, maybe it would have been a different story. [00:31:35] Speaker D: So, back at the command center, Commissioner Davies is demanding that Deloria release the photos they have of the bombers so that they can start getting information about who these people might be. But Deloria is resistant. Tommy even brings up know this is Boston. And Boston, if you release those photos, we will get. People are going to hell. [00:31:57] Speaker B: Another really good dilemma. You can totally see both sides of the you. What do you think, Christian? What would you have? [00:32:06] Speaker D: Oh, that's a great question. If I'm in that. [00:32:10] Speaker B: No, assuming Fox News doesn't force your hand. [00:32:16] Speaker D: Gut instinct. I would have. [00:32:19] Speaker C: Huh. [00:32:20] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:32:21] Speaker D: Yeah, I think so. [00:32:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:22] Speaker D: Gun to my head, which is a terrible phrase. Yeah, I think that's what I would have waited. [00:32:28] Speaker B: So that's interesting. I would have released them. So, as usual, we disagree. [00:32:33] Speaker D: But, hey, that's why we would work well together, is that we would have that conversation and hopefully come to some sort of agreement of what to do. And we get forced by Fox News. Of course. [00:32:45] Speaker B: So my logic, though, is that whatever psychological benefit the bombers would gain by knowing the authorities don't know who they are would be offset by the gain you could get by having people be able to identify them, which is exactly what happens in the movie and in real life, too. [00:33:04] Speaker D: But if you know that if they're looking for you specifically, you go to ground, you hide. [00:33:11] Speaker B: Yeah, but if they're smart, they're going to ground anyway. [00:33:13] Speaker C: But they're not smart. [00:33:14] Speaker D: But are they smart? We don't know that they're smart. They could be said. [00:33:19] Speaker B: I said to my girlfriends they should be truck headed for Canada right now, but they're not. [00:33:24] Speaker D: So, yeah, I think we've basically expressed the viewpoints of both DeLorean Davis here, which is great, but, yeah. So as we keep referring to Fox News forces Deloria's hand. And I think the exact same analyst who found the first image of white hat is the same guy who's on the phone goes and is told that, yeah, Fox News has the photos and wants everything that the FBI has or they'll go live. Was it like 20 minutes or an hour? [00:33:56] Speaker B: No, they said 20 minutes for 20 minutes. [00:33:59] Speaker D: I'm saying in an hour, my nose. Like, I feel like it was 20 minutes with the photos, with or without any FBI commentary. So now, yeah, now they have to do it. They have a press conference where they show the photos and ask for any information. So the Sarnev brothers see the newscast, and Jahar is getting text from one of his doormates who is saying that this photo looks exactly like him. [00:34:25] Speaker B: These guys were funny. It's like, dude, this guy looks just like you. [00:34:29] Speaker D: Other doormates come over, talk to the one roommate, and they're like, dude, you see that? Definitely looked like him. And then they sort of move on pretty quickly, and now they're looking for weed. [00:34:41] Speaker B: I don't think these guys were done any favors by their portrayal in the movie. [00:34:45] Speaker D: So they look in Jahar's backpack. And when they do, they find the fireworks and ball, you know, very suspicious. But they decide, oh, not my problem. We'll put it back in. Just pretend we didn't see anything. [00:34:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:59] Speaker B: Their weed outled brains were actually able to put together that it is, in fact, bombshed, as they said themselves. But I also wonder if they're like, hey, man, we don't need that heat with our weed smoking. We're not going to get involved. [00:35:13] Speaker D: Oh, man. So we see the brothers packing up their bomb materials, and they're going to try to obtain another gun. So they see the police car on the MIT campus with officer Sean Collier in it. [00:35:26] Speaker B: This was legit. Like a horror movie. [00:35:30] Speaker D: Yeah. They shoot him, try to grab his gun, but he keeps resisting. They shoot him multiple times. I did not count how many times, but that was a lot of times. [00:35:40] Speaker B: It was probably like five times. Unfortunately, it was a pullback. The camera pulled back when they shot him a bunch of times because it was pretty gruesome. And again, these guys are not hardened jihadists who know what they're doing, clearly. [00:35:54] Speaker D: No, if I read this the way we're supposed to see it correctly, they didn't even end up getting the gun. [00:36:01] Speaker B: No, that's correct. [00:36:03] Speaker D: Yeah. Okay. So after that, they run. And then we catch up with our friend Dun Meng, played by Jimmy Yo. [00:36:10] Speaker B: Yang, the best character in the movie. He's also been having a little romance with this girl who works. [00:36:16] Speaker D: The girl from the takeout place? [00:36:18] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So that's nice. [00:36:21] Speaker D: Yeah, I was happy for him. Then he gets carjacked by the brothers. [00:36:25] Speaker B: I like when the movie slows down, even though I'm not really the biggest fan of horror movies. And this is very much like a horror movie, actually. You know what it's like? It's like Zodiac. Have you seen Zodiac? [00:36:34] Speaker D: I have not seen Zodiac by Fincher. [00:36:37] Speaker B: So, yeah, it's like things where it's like someone will be minding their own business, and then someone just comes over and kills them. [00:36:43] Speaker D: Yeah. So they carjack him, but they also keep him in the car as they drive him around. And they threaten him and also tell him that 911 was an inside job. [00:36:54] Speaker B: I did like, the part where they're like, are you just saying that because you believe it, or are you saying that so he won't kill you? I was like, what's the right answer to that question? [00:37:02] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:37:02] Speaker B: Do you remember how he gets out of it? I think they just change this object or something. [00:37:06] Speaker D: I think. [00:37:06] Speaker C: Yeah, he just says it again. [00:37:08] Speaker B: Like, oh, man, you got a lot to learn here, bro. [00:37:11] Speaker D: I think he says, like, I don't know. [00:37:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:17] Speaker D: So they're at a gas station, and Amerlan is filling up the tank, and Jahar goes to get snacks. And as this is going on, Dunmeng is looking, all right, sees that the gun is in the door and is not easy to get to. He can't immediately get shot. He takes a risk, opens the door and runs and runs like crazy. [00:37:44] Speaker B: He also takes his seatbelt off. I don't know about you, but whenever I need to remove my seat in a hurry, it never goes. I was sure that was always going to. [00:37:52] Speaker D: Oh, I didn't think about jams or. Yeah, yeah. He managed to get out. He runs. He gets to a different convenience store, has them call the police. Now, Tommy happens to be in the area. This area is Watertown, which is the area where J. K. Simmons is a sergeant. [00:38:14] Speaker B: Yeah, we were waiting to see how Watertown was going to come back into the story, because I knew that it. [00:38:20] Speaker D: Yeah. So Tommy hears the dispatch and goes over and talks to Dunmeng. And Dunmeng tells him through his accent that the brothers said that they were the marathon bombers. As soon as Tommy hears that, he's like, what? [00:38:36] Speaker B: It's like, oh, my God, it's all coming together. This is like, wild. Meng is the hero. He deserves the key to the city. [00:38:44] Speaker D: And he also has his gps tracking unit memorized. [00:38:49] Speaker C: What a Chad. [00:38:51] Speaker D: So he gives that to Tommy, who know you're very brave for getting away from doing what you didn't. Getting away from these guys. And bank says, get those fucking assholes. So the brothers now need a new plan, since they obviously know that the car will be identified. So they need to go back to using their own car and to ditch the mercedes. [00:39:15] Speaker B: This is, like, ridiculous. Totally ridiculous. [00:39:19] Speaker D: Two Watertown squad cars pick up the mercedes, and this scene is crazy. [00:39:26] Speaker B: Another crazy one. [00:39:28] Speaker D: Yeah. As soon as they drive up, they are shot at by the brothers, and then they start throwing explosives at these cars. This part seemed. The explosion seemed more Hollywood here. [00:39:44] Speaker B: I actually didn't research the details of this gunfight for smythe versus fiction. I do think the huge explosions is Hollywood, but my understanding from reading is they threw an explosive device, and it would disable a cop. It didn't blow up slow into the air, but it did stop moving. [00:40:05] Speaker D: And I didn't read this for spy factors fiction. I was just reading because I was curious accounts from some of the cops who were there. They were smaller, like, more firework style explosives. And those were just more distracting. But there was one that was as big as a cooking pot, and that one caused basically just white flash that you couldn't see anything. [00:40:30] Speaker C: Wow. [00:40:31] Speaker B: So even more than in the movie. So this part is like a real life grand theft auto game, right? [00:40:38] Speaker D: Yeah. So I was saying it seems very Hollywood, but it kind of happened. [00:40:45] Speaker B: So I was like, how are they going to get out of this? [00:40:47] Speaker C: Because you can't fight the. [00:40:49] Speaker B: Like, you can get in the gut, but they'll just surround you. Yeah, but then carry on. [00:40:58] Speaker D: So that's when we've got JK Simmons, who's done after his shift, but hears it over the radio. He comes and joins the fight, managed to flank the brothers, and he manages to shoot Tamerlan in the leg, like, under the car. [00:41:14] Speaker B: Yeah. He's like, I'm going to go flank them by myself. Why by yourself? Just take a couple of guys with you. [00:41:19] Speaker D: I mean, at that point, there's only the three of them. [00:41:22] Speaker C: Oh, okay. [00:41:23] Speaker B: But there's more people coming in. [00:41:24] Speaker D: They are coming in, but at that point, it's just like three of them, or maybe four at that point, not a lot. [00:41:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:32] Speaker D: So Tamerlan tells Jakar, go to New York. Take everything with you. I'll cover you, basically. And so he goes into the street, guns blazing, so that Jahar can get away. He gets tackled by J. K. Simmons and has a fight with. [00:41:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:49] Speaker D: And then he gets run over by his brother, which is brutal. [00:41:54] Speaker B: He deserves that. And it was also crazy that the brother just keeps driving and they just keep shooting him, but he just keeps going and actually gets away. I was like, how does he get away? [00:42:03] Speaker D: Yeah, I was shocked that he, like, I was sure that one of the barricades, at this point, there's a lot of cops now that one of the barricades of cops would stop it. But no, like, apparently dun Meng's mercedes. Real good car. [00:42:17] Speaker B: Speaking of product placement, I think, like, the shooting the tires thing, that might be Hollywood, too, I suspect. [00:42:24] Speaker D: I think so because you don't see them try to do it, or at least none successfully. [00:42:29] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:42:30] Speaker D: Where are their tire strips? They're like spike strips. [00:42:35] Speaker B: I suspect this is my imagination, that not every cop car comes with one. They probably have to be. [00:42:41] Speaker D: This is probably true. [00:42:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:43] Speaker B: We're doing an interception. Go to the headquarters, sign out a form for the strip, and then you get it. [00:42:49] Speaker D: You are very much right. Yeah. [00:42:52] Speaker B: Thanks. But he drives right through the middle of the cops. I was afraid they were going to hit each other because they're both shooting at. Well, carry on. [00:43:00] Speaker D: Speaking of that. So Tommy arrives and he sees everything that's going on, and he jumps in a black truck with another officer to pursue Jahar. And he's caught by friendly fire because these are cops who just arrived who only know that the description of the vehicle is a black truck. So they see that speeding away. And thankfully, none of the cops in that car get shot. But still. [00:43:25] Speaker B: Yeah, that also reminds me. I thought it was interesting that JK Simmons shot first and didn't say, like, you're under arrest or something like that. [00:43:31] Speaker D: I mean, at this point, the guys are throwing explosives. [00:43:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess maybe they couldn't even hear him because there's so much. [00:43:40] Speaker D: Yeah. So through all of that, Jahar manages to get away. And Tamarlan is taken to the hospital. He's in real bad shape. He is coding, and the doctors are trying to resuscitate him. But as they're trying, an FBI comes to fingerprint him and say, oh, ok, you need to stop it for a second. I need to get this. [00:43:58] Speaker B: Yeah. He throws his weight around. [00:44:00] Speaker D: So back at the command center, the mayor makes the call to lock down Boston. So all businesses are closed. Everyone has to remain in their houses. As the police search for Jahar, we. [00:44:12] Speaker B: Do hear a little bit about the controversy. I remember this very much was part of the national conversation. [00:44:19] Speaker D: Oh, really? [00:44:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:20] Speaker B: Can you just force a whole city to stay in their homes? Someone says, what about civil rights? And the movie really does not go into it. I guess you decide whether or not you like that or not. It's almost funny how quaint this is because then, only a few years later, the whole country was locked. Yeah. [00:44:40] Speaker D: And they also detect a signal from Jahar's phone in the dorm and his dorm mates get detained. [00:44:48] Speaker B: I like the part where the two co eds face down a SWAT team that was. [00:44:54] Speaker D: Didn't. That was the moment of levity where they're just like, shocked. And the one SWAT guy is like, motion, get out. [00:45:02] Speaker C: Move. [00:45:03] Speaker D: Moved out. They're just like. [00:45:06] Speaker B: We'Re not involved. [00:45:07] Speaker D: They manage to pick up the rest of them, but they realize that Jahar is not there. And then an interrogator from Washington arrives to talk to Catherine to try to get any information they can. [00:45:18] Speaker B: Second best character in the movie. She's like, amazing. [00:45:21] Speaker D: They say from Washington, CIA or who do you think this person is? [00:45:25] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:45:26] Speaker B: Because they never say who they are. [00:45:27] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:45:28] Speaker B: Presumably CIA then. I mean, if they were FBI, they would just be able to say that they wouldn't have to. [00:45:33] Speaker D: Yeah, like, they're very mysterious about it. So I assume CIA, maybe? Enhanced interrogation unit, something like that? Yeah, although they don't do any sort of waterboarding, anything like that. Well, us, but, yeah. [00:45:46] Speaker B: Like, Veronica knows everything about Katie. She knows exactly what to do to make her mad. She's like, I was born in a tent, you privileged white girl. [00:45:57] Speaker D: She's also wearing a head covering and greets Catherine in the muslim greeting, which. [00:46:03] Speaker B: Turns out to be a bluff. She's not actually muslim. Another reason why. [00:46:07] Speaker D: I don't know, actually. [00:46:09] Speaker B: I guess she might be muslim, but she doesn't wear the headscarf normally, because she immediately takes it off. The interrogation is over. [00:46:15] Speaker D: But she doesn't actually get anything usable out of Catherine, only the part where. [00:46:20] Speaker B: She showed the picture. Maybe this is a little sadistic, but the part where she showed the dead husband picture to Katie. [00:46:26] Speaker D: Yeah, that was brutal. [00:46:28] Speaker B: But Katie is a true believer, so it doesn't work. [00:46:31] Speaker D: But, yeah, she doesn't reveal if there were more bombs or where Jahar might have gone. So as Austin is locked down, we see know going door to door, talking to people or telling them to stay inside. And he hears from a couple who think that Jahar might be hiding in their boat. [00:46:49] Speaker B: So this came back to me. I thought he was found in, like, a top. I remember he was found in some kind of object, kind of like that. Like hiding. Yeah, hiding in some kind of object. That's like. I can't describe. [00:47:01] Speaker D: Some sort of outdoor container. [00:47:03] Speaker B: Some kind of outdoor container. Yeah. Then they're like, well, actually, getting someone out of a boat is not as straightforward as it would seem. [00:47:11] Speaker D: Yeah. Amigos, check it out. And he's know another cop with him, and he is just able to see Jahar through the covering of the. You know, they're not sure it's booby trap, so they call it in. As he's looking in, more cops arrive, and they run their sirens, like, spooking Tommy. [00:47:30] Speaker B: This is like our last horror movie, like, jump scare. And then the siren scares him. It's almost like just with the zombie to pop out of the boat. [00:47:38] Speaker D: Yeah. More cops arrive, and as a bunch of them are there, movement is detected in the boat, and everyone shoots. [00:47:49] Speaker B: It's not like, full perforation, but they certainly know they're there now. [00:47:54] Speaker D: And they're all on different frequencies, so no one can actually communicate with each other. [00:47:58] Speaker B: Again, someone screwed up, which will happen. [00:48:01] Speaker D: But they call a ceasefire. Local PD is told to stand down. At this point, FBI hostage rescue takes charge and shoots. I didn't actually know what they're shooting into there, so I didn't look this. [00:48:17] Speaker B: Up for fact versus fiction, but I think they're called magnesium rounds. [00:48:21] Speaker D: Okay. Yeah. [00:48:22] Speaker B: And they make smoke, and I think that's it. So I guess the idea is, I. [00:48:26] Speaker D: Think smoke and light. Yeah. But I did, like, the thermal imaging of, you could see where he was and seeing. But, yeah, they get him to surrender peacefully. And this is where you get more intercut of, like, real world photo. I assume this is real world photos of when Jahar actually surrenders. [00:48:46] Speaker B: You assume correctly, yes. [00:48:47] Speaker D: This is where we get the heartwarming scenes. Boston strong, all the people cheering for the police. We finally get Patrick and Jessica reunited. Also see Steve is reunited with his son Leo. We get David Ortiz, aka big Poppy, from the. You know. And the Boston PD is invited to a baseball game to honor them. Tommy gets to shake Big Poppy's hand, and I assume at a certain point, it switches from big poppy, like, acting, to his real life big speech, presumably. [00:49:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think they would have refilmed it for the movie. Yeah, I think you're correct. [00:49:28] Speaker D: And then we end sort of with interviews with the real life Jessica and Patrick, as well as Steve. Commissioner Davies, FBI special agent, what was his. [00:49:41] Speaker B: DeLorean? [00:49:42] Speaker D: As well as a video from Don Meng. [00:49:44] Speaker B: That was wild that he still lives in Boston. Yeah, that was wild. [00:49:49] Speaker D: Yeah. And suddenly we get the ending text where we find that Jakar was, or Jahar was sentenced to death by lethal injection and was awaiting his appeal in federal prison. And that his three college friends were arrested for obstructing the bombing investigation. And that authorities are continuing to seek information regarding Catherine Russell's possible involvement with the bombing. [00:50:10] Speaker B: I think she's going to get away with it, though, at this. [00:50:13] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. But with that, our movie ends. [00:50:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Say hi to Guantanamo Bay for Katie. Yeah. They also shout out the. They show the couple running the marathon. [00:50:24] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, that's right. [00:50:25] Speaker B: With their prosthetic legs. [00:50:26] Speaker D: It was just Patrick, not Jessica. She was waiting for him at the finish. [00:50:31] Speaker B: Okay. [00:50:31] Speaker C: Okay. [00:50:31] Speaker B: And then also the. [00:50:34] Speaker D: Yes, yes. They honor all three victims. Three victims. And also the Sean Collier. [00:50:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:41] Speaker D: So what do we have? Well, I have one brief thing for spy. Fact versus fiction. [00:50:46] Speaker C: Sure. [00:50:47] Speaker B: Why did you go first? [00:50:48] Speaker D: And this is about open source intelligence, which you may go into more detail about. No. All right, so the investigation is a good example of what's known as open source intelligence, or osint. Now, this comes from Wikipedia. It's the collection and analysis of data gathered from open sources to produce actionable intelligence. So, open sources include media such as print, newspaper, magazines, radio and television, the Internet, public government data, professional and academic publications, and commercial data such as commercial imagery and databases. So when they're running through all the security cameras as well as all the submitted stuff from people, probably Facebook posts, all that sort of stuff that is osint or open source intelligence. [00:51:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:37] Speaker B: None of it's secret. Any person could find it, which we'll. [00:51:41] Speaker D: Still talk about that more, but that's what I've got for spy fact versus spy fiction. [00:51:47] Speaker B: So do you remember in Dday Girls, the D Day girls microdot in World War II, they asked british people to send in pictures of the french coastline from tourist photos? [00:52:00] Speaker D: Or we talk about, what was it? It was in Pearl harbor briefly, wasn't it? There was the guy who was taking photos, or the guy who was calling up. The other Japanese was a dentist or something, asking about. Yeah, yeah, totally. [00:52:17] Speaker B: All right, so I went to history versus Hollywood.com. [00:52:20] Speaker C: All right? [00:52:21] Speaker B: Patriots say article. For such a mainstream movie like this, I knew there would be people who were, and they did. So is Mark Wahlberg's character, Tommy Sanders, based on a real person? No, he is not. [00:52:33] Speaker D: No, he is like your Danny and Rafe from Pearl harbor. He's your point of view character for this. I remember hearing that there were Bostonians who were upset about this, that they created this character, and there were so many real life people who were involved, although there was no single person who was involved with every aspect of the investigation. Like Tommy was. [00:52:57] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. They did this also with Chernobyl. A lot like the scientist in Chernobyl. She's, like, 30 people put into one. Okay, so what were the casualties for the Boston marathon bombing? Three people were killed, 264 were wounded, 17 underwent amputations. So did the movie get the details of the bombing, of the manhunt? Right. Yes, they did. Aside from Tommy Saunders, of course. [00:53:24] Speaker D: Right. [00:53:24] Speaker B: So the shootout is correct. The older brother was shot eight times in the firefight and then was run over by his younger brother. He did die in the hospital. Transit police officer Richard Donahue was hit in the groin by a ricocheting bullet, suffered severe blood loss, but survived. [00:53:41] Speaker D: Oh, wow. [00:53:42] Speaker B: Yeah. 28 year old Boston police officer Dennis DJ Simmons, not shown in the movie, was wounded and passed away from his injuries almost a year later. So if you go to the Boston Marathon bombing, he is listed as one of the victims. [00:53:54] Speaker D: One of the. [00:53:56] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:53:56] Speaker B: Was there really a debate over making the images of the suspects public? Yes, there was okay. Deval Patrick said there was a robust debate about making the images public. At that point, there had been at least one person misidentified by a newspaper. [00:54:11] Speaker D: I was surprised they never went in because I remember that. I didn't remember the details, but I remember there was a misidentified person, or I guess, was that the saudi national that they were. No, that was not related. Or was it? I don't know. Tell me. [00:54:25] Speaker B: I'm surprised the movie didn't talk about Reddit finding the Boston bombers. [00:54:30] Speaker D: Right. That. [00:54:31] Speaker B: Do you remember this? [00:54:32] Speaker D: I do remember that, yeah. [00:54:34] Speaker B: So Reddit, the social media site, got involved as you're probably not surprised here. They made the situation worse. They identified named Sunil Tripathi. So he's indian. He's a Brown University student. I don't know whether he's american or indian American or what. But he had actually committed suicide before the bombing even took place. [00:54:58] Speaker D: Oh, wow. [00:54:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:59] Speaker B: So they fucked with this. [00:55:01] Speaker D: That was very wrong. [00:55:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:55:03] Speaker B: A very embarrassing moment for Reddit. And I can't really blame the movie for not. Though it did contribute to the whole swirl of events. That was pretty wild. [00:55:14] Speaker D: Yeah. I had a vague recollection of Reddit being involved and misidentified. I didn't realize they got it, that. [00:55:23] Speaker B: It was, it was pretty bad. It was pretty bad. And they also certainly didn't help. So did Catherine Russell, the widow of Tamarlyn, know about the attack beforehand? She says she doesn't. The producer of the movie named Ryko Radutsky defended the movie's stance, saying that multiple sources shared with him information gathered through Russell's interrogation. Even though the transcripts haven't been released, she has never been charged with a crime, but the director, Peter Berg of the movie, questioned how she could live with them and not realize what they were up to. [00:55:53] Speaker D: Yeah. Especially if the orders were as close as depicted in the film. There's no way I couldn't have known in real life. [00:56:01] Speaker B: Computer expert Mark Spencer testified at his trial that her computer revealed she had done searches that included phrases like rewards for the wife of Abuja Hadeen. [00:56:10] Speaker D: I did see that, yeah. [00:56:12] Speaker B: And if your husband becomes a shahid, what are the rewards for you? These were done more than a year before the bombing. Something a little happier. Did slain police officer Sean Collier really have a budding romance with an MIT student? No, that's entirely made up. [00:56:28] Speaker D: Okay. [00:56:29] Speaker B: Did carjacking victim Dun Meng really have the gps number of his suv memorized? Yes. [00:56:35] Speaker D: Did he have a romance? [00:56:37] Speaker B: They don't mention that the article doesn't. [00:56:40] Speaker D: Mention that, but if I recall, I've seen photos. I feel like one of the photos that was in the montage with him has him with a girl. So hopefully, fingers crossed he's happy guy. [00:56:52] Speaker B: Yeah, you're right. I remember that photo. That's true. So he did actually memorize the tracking number of the gps. If he hadn't given the number to police, they may never have been able to track down the stolen suv before the bombers reached Times Square. [00:57:04] Speaker D: Good job done, Ming. [00:57:05] Speaker B: Like in the movie, the reason why they got him was because he needed to send a text message and he pulled off the road in order to send it, rather than send it while he was driving. What a guy. He said that his time with the bombers is accurately depicted in the film, right down to asking if there was a jack in the car that could be used to play an ipod. [00:57:23] Speaker D: Oh, that's. And he. The real life Dunmen is in the movie, if I recall. Yeah, they interview, like as a cameo. [00:57:33] Speaker C: I didn't see that. [00:57:34] Speaker D: He has a cameo appearance inside a pizza restaurant. And then the real life David Henneberry, who I don't actually remember that character was outside for a short time on a porch. [00:57:47] Speaker C: House. [00:57:47] Speaker D: Porch. During the search for the Bomber. [00:57:49] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I remember that. So then finally, did JK Simmons'character really tackle Tamerlin? Yes, he did. And did officers really fire at a police vehicle as it left the scene? Yes, they did. [00:58:02] Speaker D: Oh, wow. So the movie is, like, pretty accurate, minus Mark Wahlberg. [00:58:07] Speaker C: Yeah, sure. But that's right. [00:58:11] Speaker B: So next we have our favorite quotes. Yes. I can go first. [00:58:15] Speaker D: Sure. What do you got? [00:58:17] Speaker B: Jessica says, let's get drunk. Which was funny. I've never heard that before. I guess this would be like drunk lunch or drunk. You know, the scene where he comes home, it's all emotional. He says, are you fucking eating cheerios on my couch? Mark Wahlberg gets all the funny lines. He meets Kevin Bacon. He says, whatever it is, I didn't do anything. Seems like not something you wanted to say to law enforcement. I did like Dent saying, go catch those motherfuckers. I'm not going to try to say. [00:58:44] Speaker C: It in his accent. [00:58:45] Speaker B: It was amazing. Finally, Veronica saying, you ain't got shit, sweetheart. [00:58:49] Speaker D: Presently, I think we both, each only have one quote with an f word in it. Yeah, I've got. When looking through Tamar lan's computer, he's got more porn than Osama bin Laden. Didn't realize Osama bin Laden had that much porn. [00:59:07] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah. I'm surprised oh, they didn't talk about in zero dark. [00:59:10] Speaker D: Did not. [00:59:11] Speaker B: He infamously did. Yes. [00:59:13] Speaker D: FBI hostage. Hostage rescue team takes over. There's the officer on the roof. Who? Snipers. Tell her we're with you. FBI. You can stand down now. And she's like, FBI? Boston FBI? No, man, we're from Quantico. Well, I'm from Birmingham, Massachusetts, and this is my spot. I ain't fucking leaving. [00:59:33] Speaker B: Yep. And they're just like, ok. Glad to. [00:59:36] Speaker D: Have you with us, ma'am. [00:59:37] Speaker B: Yeah, they can't do know one more at the end. I hope I don't steal it. When one of the cops says, that boat ain't going to float. [00:59:45] Speaker D: No, that's mine. He says, I'll tell you, that boat ain't going to float, Mr. [00:59:51] Speaker B: Clever. [00:59:51] Speaker D: But lastly, I've got from Commissioner Davies, talking to Tommy. There he is, General Patton in a neon vest. [01:00:01] Speaker B: Always nice to see someone making fun of Mark Wahlberg. [01:00:05] Speaker D: All right, that's what I've got. [01:00:07] Speaker B: All right, so now it is time for our ratings. On a scale of one to ten martinis, one being Avengers 1998, and ten being even better than no time to die or mission Impossible, ghost protocol. I should probably just pick one patriot today. Let's go with Ghost protocol. Of course. [01:00:23] Speaker D: Yeah. That one's less controversial. [01:00:25] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. [01:00:26] Speaker C: So I'm going to have a lot. [01:00:27] Speaker B: To say about this. [01:00:28] Speaker D: Okay, let me hear it. I'm curious. [01:00:31] Speaker B: I have a lot of thoughts. This movie made me think a lot. It made me feel a lot. I don't really like that. So it was very real. The bombing was very scary. The gunfights were very good. The search was very good. It was, like, scary and upsetting and very effective, like you said. So that's the good stuff. Bad stuff is they laid the conservative messaging on pretty thick. Like, we didn't talk about this, but there's a whole speech. Someone makes a speech where it's like, we're the forces of light and they're the forces of darkness. [01:01:04] Speaker D: Right? [01:01:05] Speaker B: So nobody dislikes jihadist terrorists more than me. But they laid on so thick, it's like, we get it. You don't need to tell us the message of the movie, okay? These guys'actions speak for themselves, so that was a little bit much. Also, while we're getting political here, the movie is very pro. Makes the cops look amazing. And at least in the circles we run in, being pro cop isn't super popular right now. Now, I don't really subscribe to that much as most people, but I'm not going to pretend like the criticisms of our city's police forces are totally wrong. Either true. So again, the movie being like, they are heroes. They were amazing. Yeah. The ones who gave their lives, and most of them, I'm sure, are fine. But again, it was just like I. [01:01:53] Speaker D: Said, laying it on thick counterpoint to that. And not that I believe either wrongly, but they do make that point. That, and I think it's in the interviews afterwards where they say how remarkable it was for people to be cheering for the cops. And then they say, like, when's the last time you saw everyone applauding for cops in Boston? [01:02:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I know, right? I mean, so agree with all the criticisms. I agree with all the studies. They're all true. But these guys do put their lives on the line for us every day. That's just the reality. So getting back to the movie, I thought it was very effective and I never want to watch it again. Don't watch it. It was amazing. I also will give it an extra point for being very accurate. As you know, that's something that's important to me. So I'm going to give it an eight out of ten. Again, don't watch it. [01:02:47] Speaker D: But it is good, interesting that you give it an eight and say, don't watch it. [01:02:51] Speaker B: I don't like movies that are so dark. [01:02:54] Speaker D: Obviously, I found it very, like I said, I found it very effective, especially just that bombing scene. And I thought that they did a really good job with investigation. And people might ask, well, how is this a spy movie? It is that open source intelligence? It is that investigation. That's where the intelligence part comes in. [01:03:13] Speaker C: Yes. [01:03:13] Speaker B: Thank you for reiterating. [01:03:17] Speaker D: It's. Yeah. Showing that investigation and how they do it. Obviously, interrogation as well as a part of espionage. So we have that in there as well. I thought this movie is well done. Like I was skeptical going in because it's Mark Wahlberg. It is Peter Berg. You know what other movie that Mark Wahlberg and Peter Berg that we've both seen and we've probably forgotten? Mile 22. [01:03:39] Speaker C: What's that? [01:03:40] Speaker B: I haven't seen that. What is that? Yes, we have. That was that kind of shitty action movie. [01:03:45] Speaker D: Exactly. You know what else that Peter Berg has directed? Battleship, the only second movie in the last 15 years that I've actually fallen asleep in the theaters. [01:03:57] Speaker B: Well, I'm glad it didn't sink his career. No pun intended. [01:04:01] Speaker D: I was very skeptical going in. I had no idea what the tone would be. I know the quality would be. Somehow they made a really good movie in terms of accuracy, in terms of the emotion, the feeling, they may have laid it on a little thick at the end. When you got the actual interviews from people, that's when it started becoming feeling like a documentary. Now, I mean, I appreciated it, but it was a tonal shift at that point with that moment. And I'm sure, actually the moment is probably right when big poppy walks onto that field. That's when everything from that point forward is real footage. [01:04:40] Speaker C: Right. [01:04:41] Speaker D: And they have their interviews with all the real life survivors and people who are involved with it. But even giving that, it was very effective. I would say if you are interested in the bombings, or maybe either if you have a connection with Boston or some reason that you would want to find out more about this, I would say, watch this. And I would say, yeah, it was surprisingly good film for me. I'm wavering between the eight and the 8.5. I'm going to go with the 8.5. I thought it was very well done. [01:05:21] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree. [01:05:23] Speaker B: That's very consistent with us. [01:05:24] Speaker D: You said, and I said the Mark Wahlberg Tommy Saunders character is completely made up. It is not as distracting as the rafe and Danny and Evelyn from Pearl harbor being the central characters in the movie about Pearl harbor. He does happen to be at every single event that happens, but it's not as distracting as that. His Oscar speech with the wife. Right. And then his other speech with his coworker that we didn't really actually even go over. [01:05:54] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. [01:05:54] Speaker B: It's also not as confusing as Kenny being in every major event during the cuban missile crisis in a movie that's supposed to be about JFK and RFK. [01:06:02] Speaker D: Aside from that, shockingly accurate and well done. Yeah, great. [01:06:06] Speaker B: Well, yeah, thanks for picking it. It was different and good. Very much up my alley, even if it was hard to watch. [01:06:15] Speaker D: Well, thank you all for listening. You can find us on social media at the Spyfi guys on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Yes, that's right, Twitter, not X. And you can find our merch store on redbubble.com. Until next time, I've been Christian and I'm Zach, and we are the spy fi guys signing off. Thank you for listening to the spy fi guys. If you enjoyed our podcast, please be sure to give us a five star rating on iTunes. The theme song from this podcast is mistake. The Getaway by Kevin McLeod from incompetent.com. Licensed under Creative Commons by attribution. 30 films, books, and television shows reviewed by our podcast are the intellectual property of their respective copyright holders, and no infringement is intended. [01:07:09] Speaker B: This is a personal podcast. Any views, statements, or opinions expressed in this podcast are personal and belong solely to the participants. They do not represent those of people, institutions, or organizations that the participants may or may not be associated with in a professional or personal capacity unless explicitly stated. Any views or opinions are not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, or individual. [01:07:33] Speaker D: You can find our podcast on social media at the Spy Fi guys on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.