Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:08 Welcome to the SPFI guys where we cover SP facts, spy fiction, and everything in between I'm Zach
Speaker 2 00:00:14 And I'm Christian.
Speaker 1 00:00:15 And I imagine you're wondering why I called you here today. I've always wanted to say that.
Speaker 2 00:00:19 Of course you have <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:00:20 So last week we did the Americans, which is a show about moles in the United States. And before that we did an episode of Archer about moles. So I thought I would give us a microdot about moles today.
Speaker 2 00:00:35 All right. Interesting, interesting. So actually let's, before we start, when was the first time you'd heard of a mole that you could hear? When
Speaker 1 00:00:44 I ask what was that on my face? And my parents told.
Speaker 2 00:00:47 Okay. Yeah, but I mean, like, as a SP Mo
Speaker 1 00:00:49 I don't know. I don't
Speaker 2 00:00:50 Remember. I mean, I know exactly when it was, it was 1996 when I watched the first mission impossible. And Kitcher just telling Ethan, you know, this whole operation was a mole hunt and I didn't know that understood. So I was like, what they talking about moles. And like, they did a close at that moment. They did a close up of Ethan Hunt's face and I'm like, am I supposed to be looking for a mole on his face right now or something?
Speaker 1 00:01:11 I thought it was gonna be the Austin Powers with the recurring joke about
Speaker 2 00:01:14 MOS. That wasn't
Speaker 1 00:01:16 Much later
Speaker 2 00:01:17 That wasn't much later. No, <laugh> anyways, continue. What are we talking about today?
Speaker 1 00:01:22 So today we will be talking about two individuals and we will begin with one. My sources for this are Wikipedia, cnn.com, Washington post fbi.gov, and the defense human resources agency website. Now our subject today is Leandro aloe, who was born in 1958 and was a naturalized Filipino American after coming here in 1982.
Speaker 2 00:01:48 Interesting. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:01:49 Do I have your attention?
Speaker 2 00:01:50 You do. Yes.
Speaker 1 00:01:52 So Landro became a us Marine Corps Sergeant and then joined the FBI as an intelligence analyst. He was the first Filipino member of the FBI and between 1991 and 2001, he was assigned to vice president Al gore and then vice president, Dick Chaney.
Speaker 2 00:02:08 Oh, wow. President
Speaker 1 00:02:09 Clinton introduced Leandro to the Philippine president, Joseph Estrada at the white house.
Speaker 2 00:02:15 Okay.
Speaker 1 00:02:16 When he was making an official state visit to the us in 2000
Speaker 2 00:02:19 Uhhuh,
Speaker 1 00:02:20 Leandro gave Estrada his card and was later approached by in Estrada associate and asked to pass along American intelligence that could be used to save Estrada's president save.
Speaker 2 00:02:31 Oh,
Speaker 1 00:02:31 No. Estrada was eventually removed from office through impeachment in 2001.
Speaker 2 00:02:36 Oh, that's right. He was, he was, he was an interesting fellow. My father had multiple books about him that were, they were called. Like he would frequently bundle English language, come out. It would come out humorously. And that's what I remember most, but I forgot that. No, he was actually also not a great president and yeah, he was impeached.
Speaker 1 00:02:55 I seem to remember an American president in 2000, who also would bun the English language. And it was very funny.
Speaker 2 00:03:00 Mm-hmm
Speaker 1 00:03:00 <affirmative>. So while working for Channey Leandro began to steal information about Filipino politicians. Oh, lean policy towards the Philippines. He would walk outta the white house on a fairly regular basis. This is like painful for you.
Speaker 2 00:03:14 Yes, it is. Come on. This is the first Filipino FBI agent and he does this really?
Speaker 1 00:03:20 What can you do? Hang on. Oh, we're we're we're getting there. All right. So he, he even used the white house facts to send documents directly to the Philippines. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:03:28 Well, that's just not smart. Now. I'm embarrassed. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:03:32 When his white house assignment ended in 2002, he was transferred by the FBI to the Army's Fort Monmouth base in New Jersey. Okay. To work for the FBI's information technology center, but he kept spying. Of course, in January, 2005, he began sending classified documents via a courier named Michael Ray Kuo to the opponents of the Philippines president. Do you know Gloria Mago Arroyo
Speaker 2 00:03:59 GMA. Yes. Also not a great president. Let's hope we don't alienate it. Well, actually, no, it's also agreed. She did some, she made some people disappear. It's not great. Well,
Speaker 1 00:04:07 If it helps, Leandra was working as a part of the attempt to overthrow her. So I don't know if that changes your opinion about him or not.
Speaker 2 00:04:14 Uh, it's not.
Speaker 1 00:04:17 No, I mean,
Speaker 2 00:04:18 Shouldn't no <laugh> yeah, man.
Speaker 1 00:04:22 The FBI's investigation of Lero intervened with us immigration officials on behalf of Aquino, he was facing deportation for overstay, his visa, suspicious officials notified the FBI who began an audit of Leandro's computer activities at his office. They discovered he had been making unauthorized queries of FBI databases and then printing out classified documents about the Philippines, which was not something he should have been working on. Mm-hmm <affirmative> there's also a connection between Leandro and the French DGS E
Speaker 2 00:04:52 Really?
Speaker 1 00:04:53 Yeah. Allegedly, according to these sources, Leandro would go to Manila to meet with French operatives and agents, but his career didn't last very long in October of 2005, Leandro was indicted and arrested in New Jersey for ESP espionage. He was charged under the espionage act of 1917 and the Patriot act among others.
Speaker 2 00:05:12 Oh man, really
Speaker 1 00:05:15 State's attorney Christopher J Christie accused him of betraying his Marine uniform, his adopted country, and the trust bestowed on him as an FBI analyst. So his partner, Michael Aquino, excuse me, Michael go Aquino was sentenced to six years and four months, Leandro got 10 years. The next day after pleading down from up to 20 to avoid the death penalty, he also had a $40,000. Fine. And he was 48 years old at the time.
Speaker 2 00:05:42 No, I'm trying to think how you pronounce this in Filipino or into like in a Filipino Leandro. Yeah, probably. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:05:49 Yeah. All right. So having done a story about a Filipino spy, it was, I thought it was only fair that I do a Jewish one.
Speaker 2 00:05:55 All right. So
Speaker 1 00:05:57 My sources for this are military.com, the Jewish virtual library, Wikipedia again, and the encyclopedia Britanica website.
Speaker 2 00:06:04 If that guy's not a, a mold of betraying his home country, I'm gonna be a little, it was like, that's not apples and apples. That's apples and oranges.
Speaker 1 00:06:13 Well, just wait and see all.
Speaker 2 00:06:15 I have faith in Zach.
Speaker 1 00:06:17 So military.com calls Jonathan Pollard, one of the most damaging spies in us history.
Speaker 2 00:06:22 Okay.
Speaker 1 00:06:23 Of course. We've heard this one before.
Speaker 2 00:06:25 Yeah. Like I've heard that about Ames. I've heard that about, uh, Hansen. I've heard that about, oh, what's the, there's a third guy. I'm trying to think of. I can't is not coming to me right now.
Speaker 1 00:06:35 Definitely not the guy from bridges. SPS. No. So Jonathan was born in 1954 in Texas, but grew up in south bend Indiana where his father was a professor at Notre Dame. Hmm. Go fighting Irish. <laugh> Jonathan graduated from Stanford and attended a summer camp in Israel when he was 16. Okay. And while he was there, he asked to become a spy.
Speaker 2 00:06:58 Oh. At 16,
Speaker 1 00:07:00 At 16. Wow. He later claimed to be a Colonel in the IDF and said the massage cultivated him to be a spy. Neither assertion was true in 1977. He applied for a job with the CIA, but it was rejected after an investigation discovered he used drugs and had a pension for telling stories.
Speaker 2 00:07:21 Wow. Yeah, that would do it.
Speaker 1 00:07:22 Yeah. Some of those stories gave the impression he was an agent for Israel, but Jonathan did go on to get a job with the Navy field operational intelligence office in Maryland in 1979.
Speaker 2 00:07:34 Hmm.
Speaker 1 00:07:34 Okay. They did not know about the CIA's investigation of Jonathan because it had not been made available to
Speaker 2 00:07:40 Partners a
Speaker 1 00:07:42 Law after he was caught lying on the job in 1981, he got a reduced security clearance and was told to seek psychiatric help, but he filed a grievance and his clearance was restored
Speaker 2 00:07:53 <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:07:53 Wow. I dunno. All the details about that resource didn't get into it. So even after an air force, clinical psychologist suggested Jonathan quote was grandiose manipulative, and at times uncertain of what was real exaggerated imagined or false. Oh man. And he recommended therapy and assignment to nonsensitive duties,
Speaker 2 00:08:11 Uhhuh,
Speaker 1 00:08:12 Occasional department and HR movements allowed him to fly under the radar over the course of his career. He was promoted from a GS seven to a GS 13. Oh wow. Demanded by his superiors regularly. Do you know what that means? Is that a lot
Speaker 2 00:08:26 We can find out right now? Hold on. This is from Wikipedia. So at least in 2022, what year was it? Was this happening in?
Speaker 1 00:08:33 Looks like about 1982.
Speaker 2 00:08:36 Okay. So this is, will give us an idea, at least. So there are, from what I understand, it goes like there's a range for GS. So the GS seven will go from 38,500 to 50,050. And you said you went up to 13. Yeah. So that starts at 81,216 and ends at 105,579. So he doubled that.
Speaker 1 00:09:02 Okay. So that's a big jump. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:09:04 Mm-hmm
Speaker 1 00:09:04 <affirmative> all right. So in 1984, he was assigned to the us Navy's anti-terrorism alert center. He contacted officials at the Israeli embassy connected to that country's bureau of scientific relations and began to supply that with boxes and suitcases full of information. Oh, okay. From state defense justice, the CIA and the national security agency, every two weeks between January and November, 1985, Jonathan dropped off large cashes of documents to a DC apartment with a special high speed copier where they were copied and then returned.
Speaker 2 00:09:39 Interesting.
Speaker 1 00:09:39 His trips were so regular his information. So vast he demanded a raise
Speaker 2 00:09:43 <laugh> which
Speaker 1 00:09:44 Actually that sounds like something Robert Hanson would do.
Speaker 2 00:09:47 Yeah. No, that exactly sounds like that. That's like that it's it's, you know, I'm so good. And it's really not about the money. It's about the recognition and power.
Speaker 1 00:09:57 Ah. Yes. Do you hear that psychological report from earlier? Mm-hmm <affirmative> yep. There you go. So Pollard wanted to know about Arab and Pakistani nuclear technology, chem, bio weapons programs, Soviet aircraft, and air defense systems, as well as Arab nations, military and readiness indicators. Mm-hmm <affirmative> on October 25th, 1985. He was seen carrying a large bundle from his office to his White's car and was placed under surveillance. And then on November 21st, so less than a month later, he was arrested outside the Israeli embassy in Washington.
Speaker 2 00:10:28 Oh wow.
Speaker 1 00:10:29 He and his wife had gone there in hopes of asylum. His wife was arrested the next day <laugh> so Jonathan ultimately performed a plea bargain. He would plead guilty to one count of passing class side information to an ally without intent to harm the United States. I feel like that's important to point out Uhhuh. There was no trial, so no risk of classified information being disclosed in court. And in return, the government said it would not seek the maximum sentence, but he would still receive a life sentence. So, all right. Not sure how that works. He was given the maximum as a life in prison. His wife was sentenced to five years. He became the first American to go to jail for life, for passing secrets to a us
Speaker 2 00:11:09 Ally. Wow.
Speaker 1 00:11:10 Some people in the American Jewish community actually were lobbying to get him released. So I worked in a synagogue, hang on, I'm getting there. So I worked in a synagogue in I, the mid two thousands. Uh, and they had a free Jonathan Pollard poster on one of their bulletin boards. And I asked them why they were going to bat for a filthy trader
Speaker 2 00:11:31 In those specific words.
Speaker 1 00:11:33 Maybe not in those specifics.
Speaker 2 00:11:35 <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:11:35 So what they said was that yes, he did what he did, but his sentence was totally over the top. No other person has been gone to life in prison for spy on a us allied. Hmm. So basically it's not fair. That was their
Speaker 2 00:11:52 Argument. Yeah. Interesting. That's an interesting argument. I dunno if I necessarily agree, but all right.
Speaker 1 00:11:56 Well also, according to these sources, one of the politicians said it's exactly because he sped for a friendly ally that the sentence was so harsh. That makes
Speaker 2 00:12:04 Sense. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:12:05 Cause if it wasn't harsh, other people might wanna do that.
Speaker 2 00:12:07 Right. And you know, you feel like you're not actually harming your own country that much really? Cuz it's an ally.
Speaker 1 00:12:13 Yeah. So you gotta, you gotta go down hard on 'em. Yeah. And I'm for one and intend to agree with the politicians Jonathan's wife was released in 1989, they got divorced a year later and he got remarried while in prison.
Speaker 2 00:12:24 Oh. To who?
Speaker 1 00:12:26 I don't, I don't know. I didn't like it out Israeli prime minister shaone para apologized for Pollard's actions and dissolve the scientific intelligence agency that worked with him. Hmm. The complete list of the information that he passed on was so vast in damaging that it still hasn't been disclosed. Wow. But he was eventually released in 2015 as part of his conditions for his release. Pollard was banned from leaving the United States for five years after completing his parole, he moved to Israel in December, 2020. All right. And that is where the story ends for now.
Speaker 2 00:12:57 Okay. Uh, I did appreciate that. You, you know, you got both of us with that. <laugh> wasn't just, all right. Let's talk about this Filipino spy.
Speaker 1 00:13:07 I did think you would wanna be included in some of these stories. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:13:10 Yeah, no, that's that's uh, like I had no idea that the very first F Filipino FBI agent,
Speaker 1 00:13:15 FBI analyst, sorry.
Speaker 2 00:13:17 Oh, FBI analyst. Excuse me. Yes, you're right. But yeah. And also this is fascinating about, uh, Paula as well, just cuz I've never heard of him.
Speaker 1 00:13:25 Yeah. As a Jewish person. He's something that we hear about because some people say, yeah, we didn't agree with him, but what he did was ballsy. Right. And a lot of people were like, well, it's really embarrassing for the community because one of the anti-Semitic stereotypes is that Jews are loyal to other Jews and not their country.
Speaker 2 00:13:41 Right? Yeah. That's
Speaker 1 00:13:42 When one of them is a trader, it makes the rest of us look really bad and we don't appreciate it.
Speaker 2 00:13:47 Mm-hmm <affirmative> fair. Well, thanks for that, Zach. And thank you all for listening. You can find us on social media at the Spotify guys on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram until next time I'm Christian
Speaker 1 00:13:59 And I'm Zach
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