"A Bridge Too Far" guest starring ZJ

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Out of the sky comes the screen's most incredible spectacle of men and war. We are the spy fi guys, and this is a bridge too far. Welcome to the spy fi guys, where we cover spy facts, spy fiction, and everything in between. I'm Christian. [00:00:24] Speaker B: And I'm Zach. [00:00:24] Speaker A: And today we have, yeah, another Sean Connery film, actually, after from Rush with love, we're going to a different part of his filmography. With a bridge too far. [00:00:34] Speaker B: Yes, that's right. So here on the spy fi guys, we mostly do spy movies, fact, fiction, a little bit in between, like we say in our intro, but we also do military intelligence movies. [00:00:45] Speaker A: I would say this definitely qualifies as that because. And we'll get into it. There is a, well, a number of intelligence failures in this, really, that I would love to talk about. When we cover, you know, lengthy World War two films with a ridiculous amount of cast, we have to bring back ZJ. Hello there. [00:01:03] Speaker C: I'm happy to be back. [00:01:05] Speaker B: So long time listeners may remember ZJ from our other super long, somewhat boring maybe. Who can say? World War two movies. Tora, Tora, Tora. And the longest day. [00:01:16] Speaker C: Yes, and both of those were very long, and this one was also very long. So I feel like we've got a real theme for these war movies from the seventies. [00:01:25] Speaker B: I also like how we're moving forward in time through the war. [00:01:28] Speaker A: I didn't even think about that, but that's true. Yeah, I know the previous two films we covered with CJ had, like, at least maybe one producer in common. Is there any links to this one or did it? I've tried to. [00:01:42] Speaker B: I didn't find anything besides Sean Connery. I didn't see anything either. [00:01:47] Speaker A: Oh, that's right. He was in the longest day. I forgot about that. [00:01:51] Speaker B: That's right. [00:01:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:51] Speaker B: This movie has an all star cast of white men. Of course, it is the seventies and is World War two. [00:01:57] Speaker A: So had anyone seen this before? [00:02:00] Speaker C: I had not, no. [00:02:02] Speaker B: So I did, but I remembered flashes of it. [00:02:05] Speaker A: Ah. So I had actually watched this maybe two months ago, a month ago, actually, before we decided to cover this. I've been going through Sean Connery's sort of entire filmography that I haven't seen. And so this is one of the ones that I hadn't seen before. So I threw it on. But, yeah, so I get. [00:02:25] Speaker B: What'd you think? [00:02:27] Speaker A: You can go to my letterbox to see what I thought about it. That's my letterbox. Username is zero zero seven. Just like all my social. So if you want to find out what I thought about that first time. You can go ahead and read that there. [00:02:40] Speaker C: I feel like that would be a spoiler, because presumably you already used your best content. [00:02:46] Speaker A: We'll see. Because maybe. Maybe I had different feelings on it this time. [00:02:49] Speaker C: Interesting. From a different perspective or from just simply on a rewatch? [00:02:56] Speaker A: You'll have to wait and find out. [00:02:57] Speaker C: All right. [00:02:58] Speaker B: Coming at it from a spy fi guys perspective this time. [00:03:01] Speaker A: True, true. Yes. I mean, yeah, I will. Granted, it is a different perspective, but also, you know, maybe I had different thoughts just on the rewatch in general. [00:03:10] Speaker B: Well, so of course, ZJ and I, and I'm not sure about you, Christian, have seen the market garden episode of Band of Brothers. [00:03:16] Speaker A: I have not, actually. That's a. I was wondering about that, because when they mentioned the 101st, like, that's the group from Amanda brothers, isn't it? I wonder if they covered this. So good to know. [00:03:28] Speaker C: It deals with actually a pretty much entirely different segment of the operation. So there's almost no overlap. [00:03:33] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. [00:03:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Which means the movie is entirely new. So that being said, shall we get into the movie? [00:03:39] Speaker A: Sure. Let's go. [00:03:41] Speaker B: All right. So, as always, we have our poetry synopses. So first is our haiku, an imperfect plan. Paras and tanks conquer Holland. Tell them, go to hell. [00:03:54] Speaker A: Alright, alright. Interesting. Pretty good. [00:03:57] Speaker B: And then here is our limerick. Oh, I should have said, as always, their poetry synopsis. Full spoilers from here on out. So here is the limerick. There once was a major named Cook who wins by hook or by crook though he rode and he prayed the tanks were delayed because the Brits always go by the book. [00:04:14] Speaker C: That's a really good one. [00:04:16] Speaker A: That is very good. [00:04:17] Speaker B: Thank you. And then finally, here is our actual IMDb plot synopsis. Operation Market guard. In September 1944, the Allies attempt to capture several strategically important bridges in the Netherlands in the hopes of breaking the german lines. So I will be directing us through the plot recap because the movie is almost 3 hours long, so we'll go in broad strokes. But one thing I did want to mention right in the beginning, when they have the montage of war footage and there's a narrator speaking, she says, it's hard to remember now, but Europe was at war. [00:04:49] Speaker C: Yeah, I thought that was really interesting, Zach and I was actually went into the film and I really wanted to try to watch the film from the perspective of this film was released 33 years after the event. So it's very much something within living memory for a lot of people. You know, not everyone, obviously, but particularly for people who would have been there. And one thing that struck me as I was kind of reading a summary of some of the actors, is that at least one of the actors had known the person he was portraying. [00:05:20] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:05:21] Speaker C: During the war and when he had served. So it's interesting because I feel like this movie seemed to connect to that more so than the other films we watched, even though those are earlier. I thought that was interesting, that it just really seemed like almost an homage to the original people who took part. [00:05:39] Speaker A: In it in a way that is interesting. Who was the person who knew the person he was portraying? [00:05:45] Speaker C: So the british general who's commanding the tank advance, horrocks, personable, charming. He said that he really wanted to capture the general's spirit because, and I don't have the exact quote, but something along the lines of he had been a real personality, and he wanted to capture that and portray it honestly on screen. [00:06:05] Speaker B: That is why we bring you on ZJ, because you have the knowledge. [00:06:09] Speaker C: I had Wikipedia open while I was watching the film and paused a number of times. [00:06:14] Speaker B: There you go. All right, so I also like the flame tanks in the opening montage, the flamethrower tanks. [00:06:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:21] Speaker A: I also enjoy it says this is the fifth year of World War two, in what year was 1944. But I thought it started when they bombed Pearl harbor, because that's what Pearl harbor told the movie. Pearl harbor told me World War two just started. [00:06:38] Speaker B: Well, didn't Japan attack, like, china in, like, 1937? [00:06:43] Speaker C: Yes. [00:06:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:44] Speaker C: There's argument to be made over when the war started. Some say 37. Some would go back as far as 36. Was it or 35 with the italian invasion of Ethiopia. [00:06:56] Speaker B: There you go. But anyway, so we begin in Arlem, Holland. The Germans look like they're on the run. It looks that way to everybody, even the Germans themselves. So the Allies have this plan to attack via Holland, and they have to move quickly. So they're discussing that. And there's a polish general played by Gene Hackman. Yeah. Is he still alive, by the way? [00:07:18] Speaker A: Yes. [00:07:19] Speaker C: Yes. I had actually just seen a photo of him. He's 93. [00:07:23] Speaker A: Wow. [00:07:24] Speaker C: And he no longer looks like Gene Hackman. I feel like Gene Hackman looked like Gene Hackman from this film through the. Just thought that was interesting. [00:07:34] Speaker B: Wow. But, yeah, so I like this polish guy because I have polish in my background. One of my grandparents was polish, and I like that he's the doubter. I thought that was fun. [00:07:46] Speaker A: Yep, yep. [00:07:47] Speaker C: I did think it was interesting that they got Gene Hackman to portray a polish person. I think that the US has a number of Polis expats. [00:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:55] Speaker B: Although Leelius Obieski. [00:08:01] Speaker C: His accent was maybe the one accent that I found somewhat distracting in the movie. The way he said. What was it? It was not general, but general. [00:08:14] Speaker A: Yes, that's right. [00:08:15] Speaker B: I didn't even notice that. [00:08:16] Speaker A: Nice. [00:08:18] Speaker B: But there's something that I noticed about the movie. I want to know if you guys agree, is that I got the impression that the bad guys, if there is bad guys, was browning and the generals. [00:08:31] Speaker A: You mean aside from the Nazis bad guys? [00:08:35] Speaker B: It's like. I don't know. I don't know. You know what I mean? [00:08:40] Speaker C: Maybe the bad guy is a culture of apathy. [00:08:45] Speaker B: Well, okay. Let me explain my thought. Like, the antagonist, the reason why it all fails. [00:08:50] Speaker A: Ah. [00:08:51] Speaker B: Drowning. [00:08:52] Speaker C: So I would. I would actually say that the malevolent presence that hangs over the whole film and is never portrayed is Monty is british. General Montgomery, who planned the operation, who pushed for it, who saw it as a measure of british versus american planning, and. Yeah, who. And browning was kind of perhaps reacting to and dependent on that. I thought it was fascinating that they didn't portray Monty at all, given that he is the kind of the driving factor behind this entire operation. [00:09:26] Speaker A: I also didn't realize that he is never portrayed until you just said that, because it's a sea of white people. So I kind of had trouble keeping track. [00:09:34] Speaker C: Well, so my initial actual thought and the reason I noticed that he was in the film is before starting it, I said, all right. What famous actor did they get to play Montgomery? You know, I was expecting Olivier to play him, but no, no, he wasn't in the film. [00:09:49] Speaker A: Interesting. But, yeah. So this whole plan is to, yet again, you know, end the war by Christmas. So they're gonna drop men behind enemy lines. It'll be the largest airborne operation, and it'll be done in seven days. [00:10:04] Speaker C: And, Zack, that's where I very much agree with you that browning may be kind of the antagonist of this film, is because he was the person who keeps talking about how it's the airborne forces chance to shine, how they canceled the other operations, how we can't cancel this one. [00:10:19] Speaker B: Yeah, well, he's the one who's like, we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it even when it's clear that it's not a good idea. Yes. [00:10:26] Speaker A: From that perspective, I can see that, you know, I'm putting aside the obvious enemy of the Nazis. [00:10:32] Speaker B: Well, I mean, it's kind of like natural disaster movies, where it's people surviving a natural disaster or you know what? It's like Jurassic park, where Wayne Knight is a bad guy, you know, because he wants the dinosaurs for himself. But obviously the dinosaurs are the ones that actually go and kill the humans. [00:10:49] Speaker C: Dinosaurs being a force of nature, much like the knights in a film. A simple background of malevolence against which all other actions are pitted. [00:11:00] Speaker B: So another observation I had about the plan was that in order for the plan to work, everything has to go right and nothing can go wrong. [00:11:07] Speaker C: Well, I think that's interesting too, because I'm not sure even that is 100% accurate in that they say you need to hold out for two days and they hold out for nine days. So in that sense, things went wrong. And then they went wrong again. And then they went wrong again. And it was what, you know, it took an extra seven days beyond what they had expected. So it's almost like they. They had bought extra time, but even that wasn't enough. Things had gone so wrong. [00:11:42] Speaker B: So do you think it still could. [00:11:43] Speaker C: Have worked, DJ, if they had linked up, say, two days earlier or something? [00:11:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:49] Speaker C: I don't know. My own limited expectation would be that even if they had managed to drive into the Ruhr, the Germans would have found some way to counterattack and they would have still been facing massive supply deficiencies from that extended line. But I don't know. [00:12:06] Speaker B: We defer to your knowledge on that. [00:12:09] Speaker C: I guess. You don't have to. You have as much knowledge as I do. [00:12:13] Speaker B: Okay, so the next bit I want to talk about is the spying in the movie. It comes right away, right at the. [00:12:20] Speaker A: Beginning, but there's a lot of it with the resistance. [00:12:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:23] Speaker A: I mean, I like specifically, it's that the person who figures out that there's a fear field marshal there is not like, you know, an adult. It's a kid who is helping his dad with the resistance. Mmm. And he's like, got him so well trained on. All right. These are the insignia of the different levels of Nazis. And a field marshal. [00:12:43] Speaker B: What's a field marshal doing here with panzers? Does the kid see the panzer? [00:12:47] Speaker A: I don't recall. [00:12:48] Speaker B: I remember. Okay. [00:12:50] Speaker C: I don't remember if he sees the panzer, but what he does see actually, is the so modal, I think, commands one of the field armies logo on the staff car. There's kind of a checkerboard thing rimmed in red. And that's actually the distinctive signal of that particular army group. So it's not clear necessarily from when the kid is staring at this car, what he's seeing isn't the car. It isn't the other Germans around. It's that flag, which is unique to that army group and presumably represents a high ranking officer within it. [00:13:23] Speaker B: But the Germans could have used that to deceive the allies by pretending like he was there. Like they did with General Patton and the ghost army, you know? [00:13:32] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:13:33] Speaker C: Yep. And you're sounding a lot like Browning right now. [00:13:37] Speaker B: I'm sure it'll be fine. Go send them in. [00:13:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:40] Speaker B: Yeah. So they get a couple bits of intel. Pretty much make it clear that panzers are there. But Browning overrules the one nervous guy. [00:13:48] Speaker A: Right. Is that Fuller? Did I write that name down? [00:13:51] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:53] Speaker A: Is the one who wants more. More reconnaissance. [00:13:56] Speaker B: I do not have that written down. [00:13:58] Speaker C: Yes, I believe it was Fuller. That sounds right to me. [00:14:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, he's like. And he has. Yeah. He gets. Gets more constants. Gets, like, photos of everything. And they're just like, no, you're the only person who has seen all this as opposed to every other, you know, intelligence source we've had except, you know, huge failure of intelligence right there. You have it in your hands, literally telling you, you should not go forward with this. [00:14:25] Speaker C: But I thought when he says, how many of these photos have tanks? And he says, three. Three photos out of thousands. How many tanks could there be? [00:14:34] Speaker B: It doesn't even matter anyway because the paratroopers don't have the weapons to fight tanks. [00:14:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:38] Speaker B: Not really. But the. [00:14:40] Speaker C: Bring up the PIAT, which is apparently a famous line. [00:14:43] Speaker B: Well, Ronnie even says it himself. The operation's gonna happen. It doesn't matter what you find. Which is kind of mind blowing. [00:14:50] Speaker A: I also like his excuse of, you know, I doubt they're even fully serviceable. Like, even a half serviceable tank, if you're not prepared to go up against it, is going to be bad. [00:15:03] Speaker B: There's also the groupthink that they warn you about this is like other intel failures like Pearl harbor and 911, is that everyone knows it's going to be fine. Everyone knows there's no tanks there. Right. The one guy who says it gets overruled. [00:15:18] Speaker A: Foreshadowing of, oh, things are already going wrong when Fuller is, like, presenting, you know, his photos to Browning. But, like, the regular projector guy is at lunch and he has to sort of make through the metal, through, feel it, figure out, like, oh, this is not a good sign. Already. [00:15:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:34] Speaker C: And the fact that he's out at lunch during this critical presentation really felt like it. Felt like it illustrated the kind of british approach to this which. Which did not feel particularly like they're out of war. [00:15:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:15:50] Speaker B: I mean, the movie even says at the beginning that they're overconfident. They feel like they have the Nazis totally on the run. They're just gonna waltz right in. [00:15:58] Speaker A: Yep. [00:15:58] Speaker B: So do you guys remember, I think I was the only one of the three of us who quite liked Tora. Tora, Tora. [00:16:06] Speaker A: Let's find out. [00:16:06] Speaker B: I don't know if you guys remember that. [00:16:07] Speaker A: I can check. [00:16:08] Speaker B: Yeah. But one of the things I said was that it felt like a shark movie where you're inevitably moving towards disaster. And I felt some of that in this movie too. It's like, right from the jump, you're like, oh, Jesus. [00:16:23] Speaker A: You gave it a 7.5, and me and ZJ both gave it a six. So, you know, it's fine. [00:16:28] Speaker C: I'd stand by that. [00:16:30] Speaker B: All right. Yeah. So the next thing we have is we meet Michael Caine, who's an irish tanker. [00:16:36] Speaker A: Is he supposed to be irish? [00:16:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I think they say that. [00:16:39] Speaker A: Oh, I missed that. [00:16:40] Speaker B: He didn't have a super strong accent. [00:16:42] Speaker A: I mean, he just sounds like Michael Caine. [00:16:44] Speaker B: Yes. [00:16:45] Speaker C: Um, one thing I found interesting, and this is me coming as a modern viewer of films, coming into this film, is I see someone's introduction. Like, I see Browning's introduction scene, or I see Michael Caine's introduction scene as, I think, where it really stuck with me. And I'm trying to evaluate, based on this introduction, what caliber of officer this movie's gonna portray them as. You know, what the movie's gonna say about them. Because I feel like nowadays, in terms of movie literacy, the viewer kind of expects to have someone introduced with some of their overarching qualities immediately. Obvious. If the guy's an overbearing asshole, there'll be an overbearing asshole in their first scene. If they're incompetent, there'll be some signal of incompetence in their first scene. And we really don't get that. I don't think maybe with Browning's dismissiveness of the polish general in his first scene, but with Michael Caine scene, I'm thinking, is this guy a competent leader of men? Is he a competent. You know, is he a major? I forget his rank. [00:17:41] Speaker B: I think so. [00:17:42] Speaker C: And I got nothing. I got nothing from the scene. [00:17:45] Speaker B: I remember not knowing too much about him either. Except that he's Michael Caine. [00:17:49] Speaker C: Yes. [00:17:50] Speaker A: And that he commands tanks. [00:17:52] Speaker C: Yes. [00:17:53] Speaker B: All right, so next, the airborne takes off the gliders, and we see a lot of flying. And people, they fly over the church and people are watching them. [00:18:04] Speaker A: Yep. Yep. [00:18:05] Speaker C: Well, so you're skipping a few things. [00:18:08] Speaker A: Well, the briefing. The big briefing. Yeah. [00:18:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:18:11] Speaker A: Also, my note has John T. Music, and it's the main theme, which is sort of at odds with the feeling of dread that you kind of get because, you know, you have a feeling that something's going and not just a lot of things are gonna go wrong. [00:18:24] Speaker C: I noticed that as well. It was an interesting juxtaposition. Another scene that I think maybe speaks a little bit to spy is the radio technicians say that the radios aren't going to work and they know that. [00:18:37] Speaker A: They don't tell anyone because they don't. [00:18:39] Speaker C: Want to rock the boat. [00:18:40] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:41] Speaker C: It's like such a dereliction of duty. [00:18:43] Speaker A: Well, before or after Fuller, like, is told that he is going on sick leave because he rocked the boat. [00:18:51] Speaker C: This was before. This was before. [00:18:53] Speaker A: So it's not as a result of. Oh, we saw what happened to him when he tried to rock the boat. [00:18:58] Speaker B: So I am not ex military, but I have had some experience working with vets. And something I've noticed is that although the military in any country has a gazillion dollar budget, it doesn't mean that the good stuff is going to get passed down to an ordinary person on the ground. [00:19:17] Speaker A: Right. Right. [00:19:17] Speaker B: So I absolutely believe that that could have happened here. Even though, considering the whole fate of the war hinges upon this operation. [00:19:25] Speaker A: Right. [00:19:27] Speaker C: This repair shop might be vastly understaffed and under. Yeah. [00:19:31] Speaker B: Well, I mean, that was another problem, is that they had date. How many do they have to plan it? Like, days, seven days or something like that. No wonder it went wrong. [00:19:38] Speaker A: Yeah. I also like. Was it Browning who says that, you know, pack my golf clubs in dinner jacket. Okay. I wasn't sure if that was british humor or if that was real. [00:19:49] Speaker B: I'm serious. [00:19:51] Speaker C: I believe that that was actually Anthony Hopkins character. [00:19:54] Speaker B: Anthony Hopkins, yeah. Who? [00:19:56] Speaker A: Anthony Hopkins was in this movie? [00:19:58] Speaker B: Yes. So he's one of the airborne generals. [00:20:02] Speaker C: He's kind of the central airborne guy who actually fights. [00:20:07] Speaker A: Is he? I did not recognize him with his tousled blonde hair. Yeah. [00:20:12] Speaker C: Looking handsome. [00:20:13] Speaker A: What? You've blown my mind. That was Anthony Hopkins. [00:20:18] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:20:20] Speaker A: With the mustache. [00:20:21] Speaker C: Yep. With the mustache. [00:20:22] Speaker A: Who was held up. Well, I mean, this is going to spoils, but who was held up in the, like, one of the two houses that got. [00:20:28] Speaker C: Yes. Yes. [00:20:29] Speaker A: What? [00:20:30] Speaker C: I know what? [00:20:32] Speaker A: Okay. Mind blow. [00:20:33] Speaker C: All right. [00:20:34] Speaker A: But also, he's the one who says, you know, bring myself. That was a joke then. Right. Because he seems like more the person who's actually getting down and dirty. [00:20:43] Speaker C: Yeah, no, I think that that actually wasn't a joke. I think that that. And this is exactly what I'm talking about, about not necessarily being able to read characters based on their intro scenes, because this guy, you know, this kind of foppish, if you'll excuse the expression, british guy is telling his, you know, Batman or whatever. Oh, make sure you pack my dinner jacket. And the guy's like, are you sure you'll need it? He's like, hopefully paints him as kind of this, like, out of touch, like he doesn't realize what he's getting into, but then he's extraordinarily competent on the ground and leads. [00:21:16] Speaker B: Leads. [00:21:16] Speaker A: Well, also with, uh, speaking of golf, we do see it, you know, Connery taking a golf swing as they're waiting for the good weather. This. Which means this got into my letterbox. List of movies where Sean Connery plays golf. [00:21:32] Speaker B: How many of them are there? [00:21:34] Speaker A: Um, as of last count, and I've still got, like, 14 of his films left. Let's see. [00:21:41] Speaker B: At least two. [00:21:42] Speaker A: There are four so far. [00:21:44] Speaker B: All right. It's a little. Which isn't alive, but it's probably been for, you know. [00:21:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:51] Speaker C: And I did want to also comment on another scene before we get the launch off, and you mentioned it, where Michael Caine shows up, but also wanted to comment on the actor Edward Fox, who's portraying Brian Horrocks, the lieutenant general, the guy giving that briefing, and who says, oh, you're leading the charge, Michael Caine or whatever. He's the guy who knew the person he was portraying. So that just to fix that in your mind, okay. [00:22:16] Speaker B: Oh, this is a little bit of a small part, unfortunately. [00:22:19] Speaker C: No. Actually, I think he came back a number of times. I really enjoyed his part, which is why I remarked on it here. [00:22:24] Speaker B: Oh, nice. [00:22:25] Speaker C: If you want to talk about a small part that also pops up before we get the drop, we got Sonny Corleone. [00:22:31] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. James Gunn. I saw him there. I was like, hey, that's James Gunn. Also just briefly on Edward Fox. He also plays m in never say never again. So, like, he looks familiar. [00:22:43] Speaker C: Oh, interesting. [00:22:44] Speaker B: See? All star cast. [00:22:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:22:47] Speaker C: Was that opposite Sean Connery or is. [00:22:48] Speaker A: That opposite Sean Connery a couple years later? 83, if I recall. [00:22:53] Speaker C: Okay. [00:22:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:54] Speaker B: But never say never again. That's the one that he came back for. [00:22:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Which is a non, non eon production. And then, of course, this movie came out in, what, 75? Is that right? 77. [00:23:06] Speaker B: Same year as Star wars. [00:23:08] Speaker A: So Connery and Kane, who have no scenes together, that I can recall in this movie were paired together two years before this in the man who would be king. Great movie. [00:23:20] Speaker C: Ah, of course. [00:23:21] Speaker B: I remember watching that movie at ZJ's house. [00:23:23] Speaker C: Yes. [00:23:25] Speaker B: So the drop goes off because it's navy, 1977. They did it for real. So it looks great. Right? He actually threw a bunch of guys out of planes. But it does go on for a long time. Yeah. [00:23:36] Speaker A: I was wondering, some of them definitely look like dummies. [00:23:40] Speaker C: Well, there's a scene in a rather unfortunate shot, perhaps, at our screen resolution, where you see a bunch of these planes parked in front of what is clearly a matte painting. There's no amount of matte painting you can do that will disguise that. So that was a little disappointing to see, perhaps. But yes, they sourced a whole bunch of these aircraft for the film. Looking good for now. I have more comments on the planes later. [00:24:09] Speaker B: So they drop in and immediately Michael Caine encounters some delays on the road. [00:24:13] Speaker A: Yep. [00:24:14] Speaker B: It's one road. And the tanks are all lined up and somebody says, and this is the wide part. [00:24:19] Speaker A: Yep. [00:24:20] Speaker C: Yes. [00:24:22] Speaker B: Actually, that's the first battle, right, where they're going towards a wood line and the Germans attack them. [00:24:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:27] Speaker C: Yep, yep, yep. The Germans are waiting in ambush because, you know, obviously they're going to drive down this one road before this, too. Also with Michael Caine, we get the scene where he's driving down with Horrocks, the general. And I absolutely love the part where the general's briefing him and simultaneously is saying hello to everyone on the road. [00:24:44] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. There's some good character moments in the beginning. Yeah, I think. And also the battle scenes also look really good. [00:24:52] Speaker C: Yes, they've done pretty well. [00:24:54] Speaker B: Very scary. [00:24:55] Speaker C: The pair drop scene, I thought was actually fantastic. I don't know if they threw a bunch of dummies out of plane or I was wondering. [00:25:03] Speaker A: Cause it does look like some of them are real, but then others look like dummies. Cause for that amount of people, like, you can't have had them all jump. [00:25:13] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, you don't need to. It wasn't meant to be this high resolution. [00:25:17] Speaker C: And we also get the great scene as they're dropping, where general model is like, why are they dropping here? What on earth is important? He's like, it's me. I am important. [00:25:30] Speaker A: And that's the field marshal, right? [00:25:33] Speaker C: Yes, yes, the field marshal. And that kind of moment, I feel like he gets in his head early. We see him have this set in his head that it's not the bridges, it's him. And then later, on. And I think actually very soon after this, another important spy scene or military intelligence scene is they find the plans that say, do not bring in the air. [00:25:57] Speaker A: I was about to talk about that. Yeah. Why were they there? [00:26:01] Speaker B: Somebody made a mistake. Which. So it's interesting that these are juxtaposed because modal assumes that no one ever makes mistakes on the other side. It is impossible that they dropped in the wrong place, which totally happened in D Day, as us bando brothers fans know. And then on the other side, of course, an allied guy screws up big. [00:26:20] Speaker C: Yes, yes. Mistakes along all levels. And that's just kind of the reality of it, I guess. [00:26:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And speaking of mistakes, we also have, like, at the rate there, discover the radios with the wrong crystals. And so they can't communicate that they've actually arrived safely. They're also, when they're landed, there's, like, escapees from the lunatic asylum. Yeah, that was interesting touch. Yeah. [00:26:43] Speaker B: And then also they have these jeeps with machine guns where the whole plan. Well, not the whole plan, but one part of the plan relies on them and they get lost. So again, they don't have contingency plans. [00:26:55] Speaker A: No. [00:26:56] Speaker B: What if the one. The jeeps get lost, but it's total, like, blue balling the audience. I wanted to see those jeeps with. [00:27:03] Speaker C: The machine guns, the twin Vickers machine guns. [00:27:07] Speaker B: I guess I got a flame tank, so I really can't ask for more than that. [00:27:11] Speaker A: And then we also have, like, the Dutch are greeting the Brits with, like, flags and celebrations because they think that, you know, well, they. They are there to liberate them, but also, they kind of don't realize that it's gonna be a tough battle. [00:27:24] Speaker B: Well, yeah, this was in band of brothers as well, so it was nice to see it. And then, you know, the soldiers, like, pushing through them or it's like, excuse me. Excuse me. That's why this movie is kind of hard to talk about, because things just kind of happen. [00:27:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:36] Speaker B: Unlike in the longest day or torator, where it's like, moving towards something. Once the operation starts, it's just kind of all over the place. So you just need to be patient as we kind of figure this all out. So I felt like they really portrayed the frustration of the people on the road really well. Yeah, it's like they're always getting delayed for some stupid reason. [00:28:00] Speaker A: Mm hmm. One of the bridges gets blown up, and so they need to fix it. Is this where we get, um, Ross's dad from friends? [00:28:07] Speaker B: Ross's dad. Oh, the actor. I thought you meant David Schwimmer's dad. [00:28:11] Speaker A: No, I mean, this would be funny because, you know, David Trimmer is in. [00:28:14] Speaker C: Band of brothers, who's Ross's dad from? Friends. [00:28:16] Speaker A: Elliot. [00:28:18] Speaker C: Oh, Elliot Gould. Yeah, he's also. Shoot, I know him from a zillion different things. [00:28:24] Speaker A: Well, he's also in oceans eleven and. Yeah, a bunch of other things. [00:28:28] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, he's in a zillion different things. [00:28:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just know him forever as Ross's dad, so. Yeah. [00:28:36] Speaker B: So is he one of the Germans? [00:28:37] Speaker A: No, he's one of the Americans. [00:28:39] Speaker C: He's the american guy chomping on a cigar the whole time. [00:28:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:28:44] Speaker C: And he shows up a bit later, I believe. [00:28:47] Speaker A: Isn't he the one who says they need to bring, like, to fix the bridge? [00:28:50] Speaker C: Yes, yes. They need to bring the bridge up now. And we get a nice moment of comedy, too, where he and his men run up to the bridge and then the bridge explodes right in front of them. [00:29:01] Speaker A: Yep, yep. [00:29:03] Speaker B: I remember that. So I thought it was interesting how the Germans didn't mostly blow the bridges, even though you feel like it would stop the. Literally stop the operation. Well, right then and there, you know. [00:29:14] Speaker A: The field marshal definitely doesn't want to blow the bridges, but everyone else, like his other, all his other underlings, seemed to be like, no, you're not really the prize here. [00:29:24] Speaker B: Right. Well, they explain it. They say the Germans need it for their counter attack. So I guess the idea was the Germans couldn't let the Allies stay in Holland because they could just rebuild the bridges later, I suppose. [00:29:35] Speaker C: Yeah, I like the line, and I don't know how authentic this is, but with modal, where the first general tells him, all right, I'm ready to blow up the bridge. And he's like, what? Don't blow up the bridge. And then the second general comes in, is like, I'm preparing to blow up the bridge. He's like, are you kidding? Why do my generals keep wanting to blow up my bridges? Almost like zero self awareness, I suppose, in that situation, you know, you see. [00:29:58] Speaker B: The Germans in the longest day being caught, and then now, I don't know, this one's kind of in between the two. It feels like the Germans didn't need to be that smart to take advantage of the Allies bad plan. That's the impression I got right. [00:30:12] Speaker A: And especially the fact that one of them literally broke, brought the plans to the mission, yet they don't take advantage of it. So there's another intelligence failure, this time on the Nazis fault. [00:30:24] Speaker C: Yes. And we do get. And this is very much skipping ahead. But other good moments where the Germans plans don't work, like specifically blowing up the bridge. The guy pushes down the plunger, and nothing happens. [00:30:38] Speaker B: Well, that's not a plan. That's not a failure with the planning. That's just a technical failure. [00:30:43] Speaker C: Well, the. The radios failing isn't a failure with the plan, either. Or the jeeps getting lost or. [00:30:49] Speaker B: I suppose that's true. I guess it's more like if you're doing the attack, I feel. I felt like they should have planned for that stuff. Monday morning quarterbacking 75 years later. [00:30:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:58] Speaker B: This is the first part where we see the young guy with the umbrella, whose name I forget. It's not Jon Frost, but it's someone else. There's a pretty sweet part where he's walking up the bridge. You guys remember that? [00:31:09] Speaker A: Mm hmm. [00:31:10] Speaker B: This was one of the two parts that was in my memory from when I saw it way back when were they attacked the bridge? And there's that bunker. And the bunker just totally cuts them up. So they have the two guys come in with a flamethrower later. So I thought that was cool. [00:31:24] Speaker C: Yeah. And even then, the flamethrower guys missed the bunker and accidentally blew up an ammo depot. [00:31:30] Speaker A: That's right. And that's what blows up the bridge. [00:31:34] Speaker C: Well, it blows up on the bridge. It doesn't destroy the bridge. [00:31:37] Speaker A: Doesn't destroy that. [00:31:38] Speaker B: Yeah. But again, it was like, who's. Who was the genius who put an ammo depot next to a bunker? [00:31:44] Speaker C: These are the kinds of things that I think it's interesting because I kind of assume here that they're based on historical events and how things actually happened. And. Yes. Who is the idiot? [00:31:55] Speaker B: Because I believe it. [00:31:57] Speaker C: This is something that would be in a film that was written, you know, that made up event. It would be called a plot hole. [00:32:04] Speaker A: Right. [00:32:05] Speaker B: Yeah. It would be like, oh, that's pretty. Pretty lucky, isn't it? You think the Germans would be that stupid? [00:32:09] Speaker C: Yes. [00:32:11] Speaker B: So, something else I liked is this movie. They have the old school death reactions when someone is shy. It isn't the full, like, spin around like at a western, but they do have, like, a. [00:32:24] Speaker A: Yep. Yep. Well, Connery or who's. His character's name is Roy Urquhart. [00:32:33] Speaker B: Urquhart, yeah. [00:32:34] Speaker A: Yes. He goes to see Anthony Hopkins troops, if I recall. [00:32:38] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:32:40] Speaker C: Oh, he tries to. I don't think he ever actually spots anything. No. They talk on the radio successfully right near the end. [00:32:46] Speaker A: That's right. So he's trying to get over there. But he gets attacked and he has to stay put for a while. [00:32:52] Speaker B: I did like the part, I know this is a little bit later, where they're like, you have to make. It's like, forget it. We just have to make a break for it. Because he has to reach the people to deliver the message. Like it's in the civil war when they don't have radios and they have to go tell each other. [00:33:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:04] Speaker B: What's going on. [00:33:06] Speaker A: That's right. In my next part of notes, I have Anthony Hopkins troops are occupying the houses and they're very matter of fact. They, like, set about, like, fortifying and ruining the house. Anything in it? [00:33:18] Speaker B: Yeah, they spend a lot of time with that house. [00:33:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:22] Speaker B: The people in it. [00:33:23] Speaker C: Another consistent thing we see, and this is because the, you know, they show up and they're like, excuse me, but we kind of need to be in your house. So sorry, or whatever. We have a couple of times where the british say, oh, this will be quite simple, or, oh, we're just going to have a few of the walking wounded in here. They'll be too bad. And then Lawrence Olivier's character actually comments on it later and he says, I don't think that's how it will be. [00:33:49] Speaker B: No. [00:33:50] Speaker C: But the British consistently have this optimistic view of how things are going to happen, which is maybe, I think what the film is saying is part of the problem with the whole operation. [00:34:01] Speaker B: Yeah. It's a very, really very british centric movie. [00:34:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:04] Speaker B: Was it. [00:34:05] Speaker A: Well, it was a british plan. [00:34:06] Speaker B: Yeah. But american movies, british director. Yeah, I'm sure a lot were involved behind the scenes. [00:34:13] Speaker A: Also, in my notes, I have got Marcus Brody. What are you doing here? [00:34:17] Speaker B: Which one was he? [00:34:18] Speaker A: He's the guy who tells the polish, forget Zoboloski. Yeah. That the drop is being postponed, which. [00:34:26] Speaker B: Again, was pretty important. Like they needed the poles to drop and they didn't. [00:34:29] Speaker C: Yes. [00:34:30] Speaker A: So that makes it what? Let's see, 87 was when. Or 89 is when last Crusade came out. So this is what, twelve years before Connery and Marcus Brody's actor's name. Who, I forget, Denholm Elliott are together in last Crusade. [00:34:49] Speaker C: He doesn't look twelve years. [00:34:51] Speaker A: No, he looks exactly older than the same. Connery looks older, but, yeah, he looks exactly the same. [00:34:57] Speaker B: Okay, so next we have the diversion where the guy brings his captain's body, but then he turns out to be alive. [00:35:02] Speaker A: James Khan. [00:35:04] Speaker C: Yes. And we get to see all kinds of people we know in these scenes. James Caan. And he goes and picks up the dead soldier and then there's almost. It's almost, like, comedic. It reminded me, actually, of Sin City, where he's manhandling the guy around in the. [00:35:21] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. The dead body who's talking to him. [00:35:23] Speaker C: Yeah. And in the. In the passenger seat. And he keeps, like, picking him up and holding them up and doing all this stuff. And I did not know what he was doing here. I didn't get it because I did remember that he had said, you're not gonna die. I promise you, you're not gonna die to this guy. And that's why he's going back to get him. But he looks pretty dead. [00:35:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Even to the audience. [00:35:46] Speaker C: Yep. And then we get the rather interesting scenes where he's trying to sneak past through german lines in order to get him to the hospital while in a jeep. [00:35:58] Speaker B: Just. [00:35:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Very, very different. And it's interesting because these scenes are so detached from the entire rest of the film. [00:36:06] Speaker A: Such a detour. [00:36:08] Speaker B: Yeah. But I think the director and writer were probably like, this story is too interesting not to have in the movie. [00:36:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:15] Speaker B: Joe. Guys, don't you think it helps to break up the scenes of, like, fighting? You know how we said about the longest day where it's like, fighting, fighting. More fighting. [00:36:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:23] Speaker B: And then they fight some more. [00:36:24] Speaker C: Well, it's also one of the few things we get to see with Americans in it. [00:36:28] Speaker A: They need, like, maybe they just needed that american audience to get invested at least. So they throw in James Caan and Robert Redford. [00:36:35] Speaker C: And. [00:36:37] Speaker B: Biggs. [00:36:38] Speaker C: Yep. The military police officer who, quote unquote, arrests Sonny Corleone is biggs. [00:36:43] Speaker B: That's biggs. [00:36:45] Speaker C: I know. I was shocked. [00:36:46] Speaker A: Did he have a mustache? [00:36:48] Speaker C: Yes, he does. [00:36:49] Speaker A: And I should have recognized him. I'll just say how this is slightly. [00:36:53] Speaker C: Different, but same year, actually, I had forgotten that that was the same year. [00:36:57] Speaker A: Oh, that is the same year. Whoa. Weird. [00:37:00] Speaker B: That's awesome. Were you guys amazed when it turned out that the captain is actually alive? [00:37:05] Speaker A: Yes, I was shocking. [00:37:07] Speaker C: I was shocked by that. [00:37:08] Speaker B: So was the surgeon. [00:37:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:37:11] Speaker B: Okay, so very briefly with Sean Connery, I wanted to mention my favorite part of the whole movie. [00:37:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:16] Speaker B: Involves Sean Connery, where his friend is wounded or something, and they bring him into a civilian house, and they put him on the table, and a german soldier walks by the window. [00:37:26] Speaker C: Yeah, that was a great moment. [00:37:29] Speaker B: And you're like, what? And then the German, like, does, like, a double take where he comes back, and then Sean Connery just pulled his gun and shoots out. [00:37:36] Speaker A: That's good. Yep. [00:37:37] Speaker B: It's something out of, like, death wish or like, some kind of action movie, not a war movie or, like, the untouchables or something. [00:37:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:44] Speaker C: Again, it's. It's comedic almost in its timing. Um, yeah. And, yeah, it's interesting that. That the. The movie chooses to play it in that kind of comedic way, almost. [00:37:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, there is a little bit of that. [00:37:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:56] Speaker B: Also, last thing about the captain's body, the part where the German is, like, looking at the jeep, I thought that was very, like, scary. So I like that. I thought it had good tension. [00:38:08] Speaker C: Yes, yes, definitely. [00:38:10] Speaker B: They crossed one of the bridges, and they turn over to the 82nd. [00:38:14] Speaker A: Yep. So they show up 36 hours late. [00:38:17] Speaker C: Yep. And I thought it was actually a really interesting thing about the scene where they're building and assembling the bridge is you kind of. It's one of the few times in the movie that you get a sense of this passage of time, of how everyone is working as hard as they possibly can to make this up. Everyone's going as quickly as they can, and it still takes. They're still 36 hours behind once they cross the bridge. Very much reminds me of project management in my own job where you kind of can't. You can't just will things into existence faster, even if it's really important. [00:38:53] Speaker B: And then I did feel like the actor who plays that one colonel or whatever, who's like, hurry up, hurry up. He's constantly yelling at it. [00:38:59] Speaker A: Duel. Right? [00:39:00] Speaker C: Yeah. That's cool. [00:39:01] Speaker B: Okay. So, yeah, he did a good job portraying how they got to go faster and they're so far behind and, oh, God, it's all falling apart. [00:39:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:10] Speaker A: So I like this, the transition to the next scene because you see tanks arriving at the occupied house. And so because you literally just saw, you know, 30 corps finally, you know, crossing, you think, oh, it's them. But you're like. And so do all the soldiers, the allied soldiers there. But, of course, it's not 30 corps. It's the Nazis. [00:39:34] Speaker C: Yeah. And that is actually. So there are two things I want to say. One is rewind for a moment to Elliott Gould. Zach, we were talking about how there's no overlap. This is maybe one of the few points of overlap between this and band of brothers in that the character that Elliot Gould is playing is loosely based on Colonel Sink, who leads the 506th Parachute Regiment of the 101st Airborne Division. So. [00:40:01] Speaker B: Okay. [00:40:02] Speaker C: Yeah, there's your crossover. [00:40:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:05] Speaker C: And then I was going to say, yes. I actually thought it was fascinating. Read this book, actually, and kind of know at least a bit about the geography of this operation. And like I said, I had Wikipedia open at the same time. So all these events were sort of, you know, lining up geographically. To me, there is virtually no mention of any of the progress of these. And it's interesting that you said to me, oh, we think that it's the tanks arriving. Because I knew it wasn't the tanks arriving based on. [00:40:32] Speaker A: You had that prior knowledge. [00:40:34] Speaker C: Yes, yes, exactly. But it. It's interesting to hear that because I'm sure that the director intended that to be the perception, but he gives the audience no geographic references to pull on here, so. [00:40:48] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So then I wanted to mention the part with the hats. [00:40:57] Speaker A: That's such a good scene. So Connie finally gets back to his unit. We all thought he was dead. Dead. And they're all surrounded and short on supplies. And we find out the Nazis have overrun the drop zones and the radios are still out, and they're, like, trying to get RAF attention. And it doesn't work. One of the planes crashes and there's one drop of supplies it's just close enough to get. And then one soldier bravely or stupidly, makes a run for it and gets almost all of the way back. And then it's shot. And inside of the supply case is just hats. [00:41:32] Speaker B: Nothing useful, which immediately confused me. I'm not gonna give anything away for spy pack versus fiction, but I was like, why would they drop a bunch of hats? [00:41:40] Speaker C: It's a valid question, and I believe it's based on. I don't know if retrieving the casket was done that way, but they did drop hats. And that was one of the few supply drops that they actually were able to get. [00:41:53] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:41:55] Speaker C: Again, one of those, you know, it's a plot hole, but it's actually what happened. [00:41:59] Speaker B: It's too unbelievable to be true. [00:42:01] Speaker C: Yes. [00:42:02] Speaker B: Yeah. So they, um. So the Germans offer for the paratroopers to surrender, and they say, no, the kid spy is killed. So that was really something. [00:42:13] Speaker A: Also. So is the old woman from the occupied house. [00:42:15] Speaker C: Yeah. She goes out to catch a taxi and gets machine gunned by the Germans. [00:42:21] Speaker B: Yeah. So more fighting on the bridge. They use the pliot, but it misses a key tank shot at one point. [00:42:29] Speaker C: So an interesting thing about these p ot's is. And you kind of get a sense for this, it's almost like lobbing a football. You often think of these rocket, you know, launchers, quote unquote, as being. It goes fly straight forward. But that's very much not the case with the Piat. It's like lobbing a football at something. And so hitting something is very difficult at range. Anyway, it's just a comment. [00:42:52] Speaker B: Well, it's like a grenade launcher where it goes in an arc. [00:42:55] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. [00:42:57] Speaker B: Okay. [00:42:58] Speaker A: You know, once the dutch resistance boy is killed, the music, the jaunty music, becomes much more somber. [00:43:04] Speaker B: For now. It gets jauntier later. [00:43:06] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. No, but I'm just like. They take the same tune and then make it somber. [00:43:10] Speaker B: Oh, I see. Very nice. Yeah. Okay, so next we have the. This is the other part that I remembered from Lungo, which is Robert Redford attacking the bridge on shitty little boats. [00:43:22] Speaker A: Hold on, before you say go any further, this lit. My notes have Robert Redford. More like Rowboat Redford. And that's because, literally, while I was typing it, my autocorrect corrected Robert to rowboat, and I had rowboat Redford. You know, that actually works. [00:43:39] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. [00:43:40] Speaker A: That's right. [00:43:41] Speaker B: So I was watching this with my girlfriend, and when I said, I was like, this guy is a super famous movie star. And she's like, cool. I don't know him. What are his most famous movies? And I was like, I actually don't know. [00:43:54] Speaker A: Three days of the Condor. [00:43:56] Speaker B: The sting. [00:43:57] Speaker A: The sting spy game. Come on, shoot. [00:44:01] Speaker C: What was that? [00:44:01] Speaker B: Butch Cassie and the sudden ass kid. [00:44:03] Speaker A: Butch Cassie, yeah. [00:44:05] Speaker B: Okay. This was the part I remembered where they're rowing and he's praying. But then my memory, like, faded, so I was like, is it the last scene of the movie where they all go over the river and they all get killed and that's the end of the movie? Turns out. [00:44:17] Speaker C: No, no, not even close. I was also going to comment on. We get Lawrence Olivier, and his character is introduced as a dutch doctor who's helping the british injured paratroopers. [00:44:32] Speaker A: Right. [00:44:32] Speaker C: Anyway, I just think that's interesting because he's possibly the most celebrated actor of the. Probably not. Actually, there's a lot of them in this movie, but he's a very celebrated actor. And the fact that he's speaking in a dutch accent for the entire film, I thought was interesting. Another interesting tidbit. I think he looks exactly like the, um, stapler guy from office space. [00:44:55] Speaker B: Wow. [00:44:56] Speaker A: I was thinking he looks like the doctor from Downton Abbey. Hmm. Hmm. [00:45:02] Speaker C: I could see that. [00:45:04] Speaker B: I didn't recognize him, but yoga I did recognize was Cliff from cheers. [00:45:09] Speaker A: Wait, really? [00:45:10] Speaker C: Where? [00:45:11] Speaker B: One of the guys who talks to Robert Redford before they go out on the trailer. Go out on the boat? Yeah. I don't think it has his mustache, though. But yeah. [00:45:19] Speaker A: So what's his. What's his actor's name? It's John Ratzenberger. [00:45:26] Speaker C: Was he mister Potato head? [00:45:27] Speaker A: No, he's. He's ham and a bunch of other characters in Pixar movies. Also, brief appearance in Empire strikes back is one of the. Not a rebel pilot, but one of the technicians on hoth. [00:45:39] Speaker C: Nice tidbit. [00:45:41] Speaker B: I wasn't sure whether that was him or not. I mixed him up with pork, hence, because they would have sashes. But yeah. So the traffic jam is still there in this part. And the boats arrive in the heroic music, even though the boats are really shitty. And I thought it was interesting that they had the smoke cover, but then the wind comes in and just blows the smoke away. Worked. [00:46:03] Speaker C: There are also some scenes where they pull out. So you see this smoke lay and the smoke's across the whole thing, and it's great. And then it, like, pulls out and you realize it's covering this tiny section of. Of the river. And it's not like other people from down the river can't see them. [00:46:21] Speaker B: Yeah, and it's not like. So I guess you were saying it wasn't going to work anyway. [00:46:25] Speaker C: I guess there's only so much a smokescreen can do, right. [00:46:29] Speaker B: Well, it's like once they came out of the smoke screen, they were gonna get shot up. It's just a question of how much. Yeah. So anyway, I thought that bar was very effective. That was really scary. Even though it goes on for a long time. And they do eventually attack the bridge from the side and make it. [00:46:45] Speaker C: And then we get this really tense moment where Robert Redford is on the bridge. The tanks are on the bridge. The german guy has said the moment the first british tank is on the bridge, he's gonna blow. It gives the order. We think it's all gonna blow up and nothing happens. The tanks roll across. Everyone looks happy. [00:47:02] Speaker A: What's this? So I wasn't sure as I was watching, did they disable the bombs or did the bombs just not work? [00:47:09] Speaker C: They just didn't work. [00:47:10] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Wow. [00:47:12] Speaker B: Yep. Yep. It's like, that's the thing about real life, is not every setup has a payoff, and not every payoff is a setup. Sometimes things just happen. [00:47:20] Speaker C: Yep. [00:47:21] Speaker B: This is interesting. [00:47:22] Speaker C: And speaking of things just happening, the very next scene is the radio start working. [00:47:26] Speaker A: Right. Wait, so did they repair them or they just randomly started working? [00:47:30] Speaker C: They randomly started working, as far as I can tell. [00:47:33] Speaker B: Well, they were working on it, but, like, they're not engineers, so that was pretty wild. They had to sort of figure this all out. [00:47:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:40] Speaker B: It's like Star Trek, where you're in the field and you just kind of figure it out. [00:47:44] Speaker C: So I thought that what they had said, too, is that the crystals in the radios were wrong. [00:47:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:49] Speaker C: And there's just nothing you can do about that because that's a core component of the radio. [00:47:52] Speaker B: Right. [00:47:53] Speaker A: Did they find crystals? [00:47:56] Speaker C: I don't know. Actually. This is something I wish I'd read up on because it would be interesting to know how they fixed it, but my expectation is just that they kept trying, and at some point it worked for no explicable reason. Maybe they turned it off and turned it back on again. [00:48:09] Speaker B: So the column is not moving once it crosses the bridge. And this is very interesting because they both had really interesting points of view. So Robert Redford, also known as Major Cook, the subject of the Limerick was like, you guys gotta go because your fellow Brits are getting killed. And the british guy says, well, we can't go without an infantry, or Jerry will just pick us off. [00:48:30] Speaker C: Wait, so, Zach, you're skipping ahead another, like, 15 minutes or 20 minutes. [00:48:35] Speaker B: I mean, did you have anything you wanted to talk about in between? [00:48:37] Speaker C: I just thought that the conversation that. [00:48:40] Speaker B: Oh, yes. [00:48:41] Speaker C: Talked about briefly, and Anthony Hopkins head on the radio was interesting, where he's like, good luck. [00:48:48] Speaker B: Yeah. There's nothing anybody can do because you're cut off. So the umbrella guy dies. [00:48:55] Speaker A: Right. [00:48:56] Speaker B: He says he carries the umbrella to prove that he's English, which is interesting. The British start to surrender, and we also. [00:49:04] Speaker C: This is when the polish paratroopers finally arrive, in the chronology of the film. [00:49:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:10] Speaker A: And they're all getting shot up as they land. [00:49:12] Speaker C: Yeah. Because the Germans are already all over the landing zones. [00:49:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Yet another, like, screw up. But somehow Soboloski or Sobolowski, somehow he survived and makes it to the Allies. [00:49:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:23] Speaker C: And not only that, but he manages to send men across the river to try and help the other paratroopers, even though at this point, everything's basically doomed. [00:49:32] Speaker A: Yep. But, yeah. And so the doctor also goes to ask permission for the German to take their wounded. [00:49:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:49:40] Speaker A: But, yeah. [00:49:40] Speaker B: I thought the german response was interesting, was like, there's a battle and we're winning it. [00:49:44] Speaker A: So. No, also, when he is, you know, the doctor is driven to take the Nazis. He gets. He sees, like, the wreck of his entire town. [00:49:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:54] Speaker A: Like, moving. [00:49:55] Speaker C: Yep. Which we had, had seen people parading through jubilantly not that long ago. [00:50:00] Speaker A: Right. [00:50:01] Speaker C: And I also thought. I really focused on the. The experience that the british medic must have had, because he's in his full paratrooper panoply and he's just being let through all these german lines. And the expectation is that they'll let him back after. [00:50:15] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. [00:50:16] Speaker C: Just interesting how modern war works in a lot of ways. [00:50:19] Speaker B: That's weird. Even the Germans had their. Some lines they wouldn't cross, but, yeah. So the. The first headquarters is getting hit, and they say that the tanks are within a mile. The first airborne mile shorts. So there's a scene where they're trying to assess what went wrong, and someone says, it doesn't matter what it was. The point is that they failed. [00:50:39] Speaker A: Yep. Like, they all have their excuses of why it didn't work. [00:50:42] Speaker C: Yeah. When it went wrong. [00:50:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:45] Speaker B: But they do blame Montgomery. [00:50:49] Speaker A: They're all getting pulled out. Connery, of course, doesn't like this, but he says, all right, we need to take precautions. So as they're withdrawing, the men who are too wounded to move will be replacing the men who are withdrawing. So it seems like there's nothing changing. [00:51:04] Speaker B: Right. [00:51:04] Speaker A: And. [00:51:05] Speaker B: Yeah. So they leave on the boats, and we get the title drop from Browning right at the end of the movie. And again, this is sort of why I thought Browning was the antagonist, where he's, like, I always said we was going to be a bridge too far. Like, don't blame me. [00:51:20] Speaker C: Yep. So in the book, a bridge too far by Cornelius Ryan, he attributes a quote to Browning at the planning meeting for the operation, where he says, I think we may be going a bridge too far, but the sourcing of that is questionable. And the sourcing of Cornelius Ryan's stuff is maybe questionable in general, but, yes. [00:51:43] Speaker B: Anyway, it's like the Yamamoto quote about waking a sleeping giant. [00:51:47] Speaker C: Yes, exactly. I thought that this was an interesting scene, too, where, as you said, like, in terms of browning being the antagonist, Browning's aide comes down in this, you know, sparkling clean room in a mansion somewhere and says to Sean Connery, oh, he thought you might want to change. And Sean Connery's like, why? No, I don't. Almost as though he's kind of wearing his, you know, ten day, battle hardened outfit as a, as a protest, I think, in a way, yeah. [00:52:21] Speaker B: So Browning, what actually happened? [00:52:23] Speaker C: And then this also circles back to where I was, where I think that maybe Montgomery is kind of the ultimate antagonist in this film as presented in that Browning says, you know, Montgomery was very pleased. He said the operation was 90% successful. [00:52:41] Speaker B: Hmm. Yeah. 90% successful. [00:52:44] Speaker A: 8000 men. [00:52:46] Speaker C: Yep. [00:52:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, and no, it was completely unsuccessful or whatever. [00:52:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:51] Speaker B: Yeah. So then the last thing we see is Kate leaving her house. [00:52:54] Speaker A: Well, before that, we also have all the injured soldiers who were left behind. Some of them were, like, getting last rights. We see the flute player who was very prominent early on. Like flute anymore. He hands injured, and they all start singing a hymn. Abide with me. [00:53:12] Speaker C: Is that the hymn that's playing as the planes take off? [00:53:15] Speaker A: I. I don't recall. Okay. [00:53:17] Speaker B: I think so. That sounds right. [00:53:19] Speaker C: I had, um, two comments on the end of the film as well. Um, one is that Sean Connery says, I went in there with 10,000 men. I came out with less than two. Took me about 10 seconds to process that. He didn't mean like fewer than two men, like one and a half men or something. [00:53:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:35] Speaker C: Because it very much. Yeah. Confused me. And the second thing was, I actually really liked how the film ended very much with a whimper. You know, the action. There's not this, you know, huge action setup. The final action scene is, I think, the crossing of Sobowski's boats. [00:53:55] Speaker A: Yeah. When they all get shot up. [00:53:57] Speaker C: Yeah. Which is like 1015 minutes before the end of the film. Instead, we get kind of this gradual downturn as the prisoners are exchanged and the people realize that it's not going to work. And then the people get extracted. There's this conversation and the prisoners are all getting captured. And then it ends with Lawrence Olivier and the woman whose name I forget, leaving the house and packing up and carting across the landscape. And. Yeah, just very much ends on a. You know, there's no. There's no final hurrah. There's no anything there. It's just kind of peters out. I thought that was an interesting way to end it. [00:54:43] Speaker B: All right, so that is the movie. Now it's time for our spy fact versus fiction. [00:54:47] Speaker A: I've got one thing, so I'll go first. [00:54:50] Speaker B: Okay. [00:54:50] Speaker A: And it is actually about that hymn. So abide with me is a christian hymn. This is from Wikipedia by scottish anglican cleric Henry Francis Light. It's a prayer for God to stay with the speaker throughout life and death. It was actually written in 1847 as he was dying from tuberculosis. Interesting. [00:55:10] Speaker B: Ouch. [00:55:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:11] Speaker B: So my source is a YouTube video called History Buffs by Nick Hodges. And he had a decent amount of info. So he explained that a lot of money had been spent on developing the paratrooper divisions and the last eleven drops had been canceled. There's political pressure coming down from the civilian government to use those paratroopers before the end of the war, which contributed to pushing market garden forward. Or maybe it shouldn't have been. Monty's first subordinate got sick, and there was no one at headquarters that he could trust, which Nick said that was an inexcusable failure among so many others. And it led to Monty singing at hq and not directing market garden himself. And that's why the RAF did kind of whatever they wanted, which meant protecting their planes first, not taking risks with. [00:56:01] Speaker A: Driving, which we didn't even talk about, really. [00:56:04] Speaker B: Yeah, we touched on that a little bit, but that is something there. Nick says Browning definitely knew about the panzers from the Dutch underground, but proceeded anyway. Now, Major Fuller is the guy with the projector. In real life, his name was Major Brian Urquhart, but he's not related to Sean Connery's Urquhart. [00:56:23] Speaker A: Oh. [00:56:23] Speaker B: So they changed his name to avoid the confusion. [00:56:26] Speaker A: Interesting. [00:56:27] Speaker B: In the movie, he was shy and nervous, but he was really very confident, and he put up a huge fuss. He wasn't put on sick leave, but he did request transfer out after the defeat because he was depressed about his inability to stop it. [00:56:39] Speaker A: Fair? Yeah. [00:56:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Now, the radios, they worked. They did work. Okay. Geography interfered, but the problem was that the ranges were too short. And although some of them did get the wrong crystals and they didn't have anything better, so they were stuck with them. Now, the reason why they had always worked before was because they had dropped close to allied ground forces and relieved quickly, but this time, they were much further away. So the reason why it was such a problem was because they had to relay messages down the line, kind of like in the civil war, rather than just broadcasting directly. [00:57:16] Speaker C: I think we did get a bit of a reference to the ranges having worked in the past, where one of the radio techs says, well, they worked. Always worked for me in the desert. [00:57:25] Speaker A: All right. Yep. [00:57:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, there you go. That's the reason, was they were close. So John Frost told Anthony Hopkins that he should walk everywhere because that's what he did in real life. It was to show his contempt for danger. They changed it from the movie because they said no one would believe it. But John Frost was about making himself look better because there's a line where he says, we can't take the Germans prisoner. We don't have the resources. [00:57:49] Speaker A: Right. [00:57:50] Speaker B: They wanted him to say it, but he said, well, I didn't say it in real life, so it makes someone else say it. But he was willing to be there when it was said. The part with this recovered plans model did take them seriously. [00:58:03] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:58:04] Speaker B: And he took them to the expertise in Germany on airborne warfare, and the Germans took action accordingly. [00:58:09] Speaker A: Oh, okay. Yeah, that's kind of a. I wonder why they changed that for the film, just to make it seem even more inevitable. [00:58:19] Speaker B: Yeah, it would have been pretty depressing for the audience. So the staff Sergeant Doohan was the name of Ross's dad's character. [00:58:28] Speaker A: Ah, yes. [00:58:29] Speaker B: He did save his captain, but he didn't drive through, like, cordon of Germans through the woods. [00:58:34] Speaker C: That's not Ross's dad's character. That's Sonny Corleone. [00:58:37] Speaker A: Oh. [00:58:37] Speaker B: Shirley Corleone. [00:58:38] Speaker A: James Conn. [00:58:38] Speaker B: Thank you. James Connor. Thank you. So the boats that Robert Redford used, some of them came with only two oars, so they used their rifle. But, like in the movie, and the praying was done out loud to help them keep in time. [00:58:51] Speaker A: Okay. All right. [00:58:52] Speaker B: I can see that. So Cook and the british captain really did have a confrontation over the tank column. But it wasn't as polite as in the movie. Lots of four letter words. And Cook pulled out his gun and pointed it at the tank. He said, you get these tanks moving. And in response, the british guy just went into the tank and closed it. Nick says it didn't matter because Frost had already surrendered by then, and market garden was already over, so it made a difference. One last thing that Nick wanted to mention was, Soboloski has a line about, here's what happens when you play a war game. Lots of people die, and it's all for nothing. [00:59:29] Speaker A: Mm hmm. [00:59:30] Speaker B: Which he says, on top of a church. You remember that part? So Nick said, no general would ever say that, because being generals, they know that they have to sacrifice lives. But the screenwriter wanted to say this movie was an anti war movie, so that's why he put it that interesting. So now it is time for our favorite quotes. ZJ as our guest, would you like to go first for me? [00:59:52] Speaker C: I mentioned kind of the. The comedic timing of a few scenes. I can't remember if I mentioned this one or not, but when Fuller is showing the slides to General Browning, General Browning says something like, splendid view of the dutch countryside. And then he shows them the next one, and it's just tanks. Like, there's a bunch of tanks parked there, and there's no question. And then he says, I've had it enlarged. And he shows the giant picture of all these tanks there, and Browning looks at them and turns around and says, I shouldn't worry about them. [01:00:27] Speaker B: Yeah, it shouldn't be a problem or something. [01:00:29] Speaker C: It kind of summed up the movie in a nutshell for me. So I'll go with that as one of my favorite quotes. [01:00:34] Speaker B: Very nice. [01:00:35] Speaker A: All right, Zach, you want to go? [01:00:37] Speaker B: Yeah. So I like, in the beginning, the narrator says, like, so many plans and so many wars before it, it was to end the war by Christmas. I like that one because it's like, oh. Oh, boy. [01:00:48] Speaker A: That gives us a sense of, oh, wait, when did the war actually end? Not then. [01:00:53] Speaker B: Yeah. So I like when Browning says, this time the party's on and nobody's going to call it off, because it also reminded me of a similar line in band of brothers where someone says, pack your something and fill out your wills, boys. I don't think they're calling this one off. I don't want to take too many of them. I really like the part with the lunatics where they're laughing and somebody, I think Sean Connery says, do you think they know something we don't? [01:01:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:01:19] Speaker B: And then my last one is fine. I'll do a funny one at the end, which is, I got divorced twice. Does that count as being liberated? [01:01:26] Speaker C: Oh, grown. [01:01:28] Speaker A: Whatever. [01:01:29] Speaker B: I don't care. I liked it. [01:01:32] Speaker A: All right, I've got a bunch from Connery. Presumably you are intending to let us hold. Let me start that again and try my Connery accent. [01:01:40] Speaker B: Mm hmm. Presumably. [01:01:42] Speaker A: Presumably you are intending to let us land somewhere? That's a terrible connery. [01:01:47] Speaker B: Better than I could do. [01:01:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, and when he's about to jump, he says, I didn't quite tell you everything at the time, but I'm prone to air sickness. And he again, from Connery, at the very end of the movie, someone's like, oh, I almost believe we're gonna make it out. He said, I thought everyone knew God was a Scotsman. And his nice long monologue. Well, it's not really a monologue, but nice long quote here, Hancock. I've got lunatics laughing at me from the woods. My original plan has been scuppered now that jeeps haven't arrived. My communications have completely broken down. Do you really think that any of that can be helped with a cup of tea that just went into sort of General Scotsman as opposed to specifically Connery? [01:02:29] Speaker B: I thought it still sounded pretty good. Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, that's the British where they have tea wherever they go. Mm hmm. [01:02:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Alrighty. Shall we get to our reviews? [01:02:39] Speaker B: Yeah. So next is finally, is our reviews. On a scale of one to ten martinis, one being Avengers 1998 and ten being mission impossible, ghost protocol, how would we rate a bridge too far? ZJ, as our guest, would you like to go first, I would love to. [01:02:55] Speaker C: Bit torn on this one. I think I'm going to give it an eight. [01:02:59] Speaker B: Whoa. You really liked it? [01:03:02] Speaker C: I thought it was by far the best constructed and paced of the movies that we've watched. I think it had some humor. I think that the acting was largely, by and large, very good. I think that the gratuitous celebrity cameos were a bit more. Less gratuitous, maybe, or at least more fit better in the film as long, at least with the British, not the Americans, were a little bit much. And, yeah, I thought it told an interesting story in an interesting way. And I thought the action was pretty good, too. [01:03:37] Speaker A: Okay, cool. [01:03:38] Speaker B: Very nice, Zach. [01:03:39] Speaker A: Let's hear it. [01:03:40] Speaker B: So I did not like this one as much as the longest day, first of all, or as long as they. Which I actually did like because as an adaptation, it's great, because it's mostly pretty historically accurate with a few things that are wrong. But it didn't feel like it was leading somewhere. Like, I didn't know where the story was going. [01:04:02] Speaker A: Right. [01:04:03] Speaker B: And there were a lot of parts that were kind of slow. [01:04:06] Speaker A: Okay. [01:04:07] Speaker B: None of these movies are really connected with the characters. It's not easy to have a war movie where you can do that. So I'm not gonna hold it against too much, but I did find it kind of slow, so I'm gonna give it a six out of ten. [01:04:18] Speaker A: All right. [01:04:18] Speaker B: I think it's a little. Little better than average. [01:04:21] Speaker A: And just so for the audience can remember. So you gave. Or was it. [01:04:26] Speaker B: I just had a toratora seven and a half. [01:04:29] Speaker A: Yeah, you gave Tora. Tora. Tora. A seven and a half. And we gave it. Both of us gave it sixes, whereas ZJ gave the longest day of seven and me and you gave it fives. Okay, so that's six and eight. I'm gonna split the difference here and give it a seven out of ten martinis, which, now that I've said that in my letterbox review, I did only give it two and a half stars out of five because I was expecting something else from it. [01:05:01] Speaker B: Oh, that's fair. [01:05:02] Speaker A: When I first saw it, because I was expecting more of, like, you know, this will be a fun, not fun romp of. All right. Connery taking a bunch of commandos or something. [01:05:13] Speaker B: I didn't know. [01:05:13] Speaker A: I just knew that Connery was in it. And there was a world war two kind of had. Yet, like, something vaguely told me that it was didn't work. Like, the mission didn't work, but I didn't but I thought it could still be, you know, I thought it was gonna be, yeah. Fun Connery action kind of thing, which it is not by far. I mean, there is, you know, good action in it, but it's not like an action movie. It's not. [01:05:35] Speaker B: Definitely not. [01:05:36] Speaker A: And of course, this isn't in his period of like, you know, his elder action movies like the rock or anything like that. So it's more in his trying to get acclaim and actual meaty parts era of his career. Given that, now I knew what to expect, I did enjoy it a lot more. And then also looking from that spy fi guys perspective of, all right, all of the intelligence failures and just general failures of plotting, plotting and planning, I got more out of it this time around. And so, yes, I mean, like, yeah, it was also fun for me. Spot the actor. Oh, hey, there's Robert Redford. Oh, hey, there's Denholm Elliot. There's James Khan. Obviously Connery plays a big role, so that always wins me over. Yeah. So I think out of the three that we covered, like, I actually, in my letterbox review, I even state, alright, between this and Tora, Tora, Tora. Longest day, even the battle for Britain. I'm just like, maybe I just don't like big sprawling historical war films with a giant cast that are slavish to actual historical events. [01:06:46] Speaker B: Hmm. Even with John Connery is enough. [01:06:48] Speaker A: But this is, of the. All of those, this was the one that I enjoyed the most. [01:06:53] Speaker B: Nice. [01:06:54] Speaker A: Are there any others that I'm not thinking of in terms of that? Oh, actually there's one that we'll probably, probably cover, or a pair of them, they'll probably cover in the future. And the two versions of Midway. [01:07:06] Speaker B: Midway, okay. I was gonna say there's some german ones like Das boot. [01:07:10] Speaker A: Ah. Which I do want to watch at some point. But yeah, we'll talk more about midway whenever we get to it, which. Well, we're going out of. Out of order with those because that should have happened right after we did. Tora, Tora, Tora. [01:07:22] Speaker B: Oh, nobody's perfect, but yeah. So thank you for joining us, ZJ. Hope you enjoyed your visit to the spy. [01:07:28] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. [01:07:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Thanks for coming and thank you for all your insights. [01:07:34] Speaker C: Yeah, I hope I had some interesting observations here. [01:07:38] Speaker A: All right, and for those of you spy fi fans out there who are based in the DC area, we have a special treat for you. So Zach and I have been invited to intro a screening of the Ministry of ungentlemanly warfare starring Henry Cavill and a bunch of other cool stars. None of them will be there. Just us, to be clear. [01:08:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Thanks for clearing that up. [01:08:03] Speaker A: And so that'll be at the Alamo Drafthouse, DC on Bryant street. The show time is. Zach, what time is it at? [01:08:11] Speaker B: It is that 245? [01:08:13] Speaker A: If you don't have tickets now, this will be tomorrow, day after this drops, April 19. [01:08:20] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [01:08:21] Speaker A: So, yeah, if you happen to be in the area, if there's still tickets available, come on and see us. If you. We may be given some have some giveaways. And also we also do want to check out the Highbinder bar at that Alamo, which is spy themed. So of course we need to be there. [01:08:37] Speaker B: Yeah, it's going to be fun. Our first live show, hopefully not the last. All right, and thank you for joining us, listeners. You can find us on the social media at the Spy Fi Guys on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, and our merch [email protected], until next time, Im Zach and Im Christian, and we are the spy fi guys signing off. [01:09:01] Speaker A: Thank you for listening to the spy Fi guys. If you enjoyed our podcast, please be sure to give us a five star rating on iTunes. The theme song from this podcast is mistake the Getaway by Kevin McClellan from incompetech.com, licensed under Creative Commons Attribution 3.0. Films, books, and television shows reviewed by our podcasts are the intellectual property of their respective copyright holders, and no infringement is intended. [01:09:28] Speaker B: This is a personal podcast. Any views, statements, or opinions expressed in this podcast are personal and belong solely to the participants. They do not represent those of people, institutions, or organizations that the participants may or may not be associated with in in a professional or personal capacity unless explicitly stated. Any views or opinions are not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, or individual. [01:09:53] Speaker A: You can find our podcast on social media at thespyguys on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.