"Elizabeth"

Speaker 0 00:00:00 Absolute power demands, absolute loyalty. We are the spy guys and this is Elizabeth. Welcome to The Spy Guys where Recover, Spy facts, spy fiction and everything in between. I'm Christian. Speaker 2 00:00:21 And I'm Speaker 0 00:00:22 Zach. And today we've got, I think this may actually now be our earliest time period that a movie has been taken, taken place in. Speaker 2 00:00:30 Yes, that's right. For those of you who have been listening, we have a recurring joke about how far back in time have our subjects gone. Furthest back we had was Harriet was the 1860s fathered by Jack of all trades, which was the 18 hundreds. And now we have Elizabeth who takes place in the 15th century. Speaker 0 00:00:50 16th century. This is the 15 hundreds or if I'm right about that. Oh Speaker 2 00:00:55 Yes, you're right. England in 1554. I don't think this will be de time soon. Speaker 0 00:00:59 And spy fountains, thank you for waiting. I know it's been a little bit longer than usual between recordings and we are also probably gonna take a, you know, a few more breaks. Uh, got some stuff in, let's just say a personal lives that need to take, be taken care of. Nothing, nothing bad, in fact. All good stuff. But, so you might see longer breaks episodes. I think actually we're gonna switch to a weekly, or no, no, no, not weekly to a monthly instead of every two weeks. Speaker 2 00:01:30 But for now we're talking about Elizabeth from 1998 storing Kate Blache and quite a few other people who we know. So Christian, question for you. Yes. Did you know that Daniel Craig was in this when you picked it? Speaker 0 00:01:46 <laugh>? Yes. That is part of the reason why I picked it. The other reason I picked this is because the International Spy Museum does have in their spies and spy Masters Gallery, a whole big exhibit about Sir Francis Washam. I'm ashamed to say I've never watched the whole thing of, because there's just so much to do in that first gallery. I mean, they've got Maah ha they've got, um, James Lafayette, they've got Mor Storm, uh, Dimitri Atel, and I don't know why, but the Sir Francis Washam one never gets my full attention cuz there's just so much going on there. Although now that we're covering this movie and have at least a little more idea, even though I know this movie is not entirely factual, I will watch their entire presentation on it next time I go there. Speaker 2 00:02:34 Nice. You know, I feel like this movie is actually very timely. Speaker 0 00:02:39 I was gonna say too, Yeah. Speaker 2 00:02:41 House of the Dragon. Oh, Speaker 0 00:02:45 Ok. I was think that we are now at the end of the second Elizabethan age with the death of Elizabeth mm-hmm. <affirmative> that also <laugh> was interest timely in that way. Speaker 2 00:02:58 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> <affirmative>. Yes, you're right. Speaker 0 00:03:00 Wow. Zach, why don't you start us off by giving us the plot synopsis. Speaker 2 00:03:05 This is not the plot synopsis, but here is what IMDB says about Okay. The early years of the Reign of Elizabeth I, first of England and her difficult task of learning what is necessary to be a monarch. Speaker 0 00:03:18 Okay, Interesting. Interesting. We start with like the most title cards I would call 'em, um, I've ever seen in a movie. And they're not long. It's, each one is just like a few words. England 1554 Henry VIII is dead. The country is divided Catholic versus Protestant. Henry's eldest daughter, Mary Fervin Catholic is Queen, she is childless. The Catholic's greatest fear is a sex session of Mary's Protestant, half sister Elizabeth. Speaker 2 00:03:50 Suddenly I long for the elegance, simplicity of Tom Cruise jumping off of a roof Speaker 0 00:03:55 <laugh>. Uh, Speaker 2 00:03:59 And the movie only gets more complicated from there. Speaker 0 00:04:02 I mean, people complain that the first mission impossible has lots of twists and turns and plots <laugh>. This has nothing on or that has nothing on this. Speaker 2 00:04:10 Nope. Speaker 0 00:04:11 So we start off with a bunch of Protestants who are executed by a fire. There's a whole like thing with them, like getting their, all their hair cut off. Speaker 2 00:04:18 Which is so interesting because I think of the UK as a Protestant country Speaker 0 00:04:24 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, Well, I mean, it wasn't always Speaker 2 00:04:26 Yeah, definitely not to the point where Catholics could go around murdering people who weren't Catholic. Speaker 0 00:04:31 Yeah. Well, I mean that's, that all changed with Henry the afe. But you know, his want for divorce, if we're gonna go back into the history books. Speaker 2 00:04:40 That's Speaker 0 00:04:41 Right. So we also have the next scene, we have some courtly gossip. It sounds like that the Queen is pregnant. Hey, look, there's Christopher Eton. Speaker 2 00:04:51 Right. So by the Queen you mean Mary? Yes. Queen of Scotts. Speaker 0 00:04:56 No, Speaker 2 00:04:57 Queen of Scotts A different Mary. Yes. A different Cre Mary. Speaker 0 00:05:00 Yes. Oh my gosh. So this Queen Mary is the daughter of Catherine of Aragon, whereas Elizabeth is the daughter of Anne. All Speaker 2 00:05:07 Right. I'm glad you're here to keep this all Speaker 0 00:05:09 Straight. I know there's too many Marys. Speaker 2 00:05:11 Yeah. And well, again, like in house of the Dragon, there's all like, who's pregnant? Who has the claim to throne, what's gonna happen, et cetera. Speaker 0 00:05:19 But yeah, so Christopher Eton is the Lord of Norfolk. Um, and he's consulting with one of his spies, seemingly who uh, is it a real pregnancy? Is it the kings? Well, you know, the king hasn't shared her bed in a long time, so we're not sure what's up with it. There's also a meeting with the Queen who's asking about the rebellion against her. Apparently the Protestants wanna put Elizabeth on the throne and one of the other Dukes or Lords, I don't remember if he is a Duke or a Lord. I don't know what the difference is. Speaker 2 00:05:50 Uhhuh Speaker 0 00:05:51 Says he doesn't believe that. Oh, it's a Duke of Sussex who becomes prominent, more prominent a little bit later. Doesn't believe Elizabeth had any hand in it. But someone else says, as long as she's alive, she's a threat. Speaker 2 00:06:04 Just like in house of the Dragon Speaker 0 00:06:06 <laugh>, Speaker 2 00:06:07 I assume people are caught up on it, but there's a point where they're like, as long as you're alive, you pose a threat to the throne, which means people are gonna try to kill you. Which is what ends up happening in Speaker 0 00:06:18 This movie. Uh, yeah. So they want Norfolk to find proof of this treachery. Also, the Spanish ambassador is played by, uh, James Fran, who played Sarah on Star Trek Discovery Speaker 2 00:06:30 <laugh>. This movie is full of famous people. I didn't point it out, but in the opening credits in addition to Williams. And they also had David Attenborough or Richard Attenborough, Speaker 0 00:06:39 Excuse me, Richard at, Yeah. Yep. He is there. He will meet him later. He plays Sir William someone or other Speaker 2 00:06:45 <laugh>. Right. Speaker 0 00:06:46 Anyway, so we go to meet Elizabeth. She's having a fun frolic with friends. Say that five times fast <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:06:52 Yeah. Her life is just perfect. It's like a fairytale, which actually this movie reminded me of a little bit as well. And when we first meet her, she's doing what I like to think is Tai Chi, even though I know what it's not, Speaker 0 00:07:04 It's definitely not. It's just like dancing. And she's about to have a role in the hay with Lord Robert when she's taken by Royal Guards. Also, at this moment, I have an in my notes, the credits are still happening. Like there are still credits flashing on the bottom of the screen. This is where you see that Daniel Craig is in it. Speaker 2 00:07:25 So she should have took their time. Speaker 0 00:07:26 Right, Right. So she gets in prison in the tower, which I assume is the Tower of London. Speaker 2 00:07:32 Yes. I would assume that too. Speaker 0 00:07:33 Yeah. And as she goes in, she sees like there are heads on spikes. Um, there's still more credits coming. <laugh> Speaker 2 00:07:41 <laugh>, Speaker 0 00:07:42 She gets interrogated by a bunch of people, including, uh, the Duke of Sussex. Speaker 2 00:07:48 Well, somebody comes in and says, remember who you are? Which is great advice. Speaker 0 00:07:53 Yeah. So she Oh yeah. She tries to protest saying that she had nothing to do with it, but no dice. She's still taken to a cell and the Duke of Sus or Sussex is the one who gives her a coat and, and says, you know, take this, you're cold. And also her handmaids get locked up as well. Speaker 2 00:08:10 <laugh>. I also thought that was interesting and also kind of funny. Yeah. But what would be more scarier is if like she got murdered, they would probably get murdered along with her just cuz that's the way it worked in the times. You, it's your wagon to a noble and whatever happens, you're along for the ride. Speaker 0 00:08:27 Right. So Elizabeth gets brought to the throne room where she meets with Queen Mary, who's just like, you know, why won't you confess? Um, and then you actually did this. And we find out that Mary is not actually pregnant, but it's a tumor Speaker 2 00:08:42 <laugh>, it's not a tumor. Speaker 0 00:08:44 Oh, I knew that was coming. <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:08:47 Yeah. I also have a note that she seems kinda unhinged. Speaker 0 00:08:50 Yeah. Just a little. Yeah. And she like tries to, because if she dies, Elizabeth would be the, you know, the inheritor of the throne and she tries to make Elizabeth promise to uphold the Catholic faith. And Elizabeth does a ban switch and says, I will promise to my conscience Speaker 2 00:09:09 Just like a politician Speaker 0 00:09:11 <laugh>. And she's told that she can return home under guard until Mary recovers. As she's leaving, Elizabeth has to go out through like the court and sees all of the noblemen out and they all like stop and stare as they see her. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Norfolk tries to rally the court and saying, You're afraid of a her, she's just a girl. Well, Speaker 2 00:09:32 So the Catholics at this point are worried about their situation. Like they're worried that if the process take control, they're gonna get wiped out. Which is kind of like in Ireland back in the day, back Speaker 0 00:09:42 In control. Think about Ireland. When I got that tag about the Protestants and Catholics, like I did, or I thought about. Yeah. Anyway, so we meet Sir Francis Walham, he's in France, uh, a a young man, man who was in his room and seeming I don't know who, come on. Like what I I was You do not assuming that. Speaker 2 00:10:04 I totally assumed that. Speaker 0 00:10:05 Yeah. I, Speaker 2 00:10:07 Not the only one Speaker 0 00:10:08 Just because his shirt was down to, you know, unbuttoned down to his naval. I didn't assume it. That's just how they also, how they wore shirts in those days. But yes, okay. It is, it is coded that he's a lover. Speaker 2 00:10:21 That's right. Speaker 0 00:10:23 But this young man attempts to assassinate Wal Waltham, but Waltham actually talks him down and like has tells him to like look outside and you can actually see the, um, see Notre Dame from a distance like out the window and he says, you know, look at, look, you know, you have your whole world ahead of you. You know, you should value your innocence and then slits the kid's throat. Speaker 2 00:10:45 Yeah. This is a great start for this guy. A man of action. Finally. Speaker 0 00:10:49 So Elizabeth is going to confession where she meets with Sir William played by Richard Attenborough? Or is it, which one is it? It's Rich Richard. Right? It's Richard, Yeah. Okay. And he gives her advice to say nothing and meet no one who can compromise her. Not even Sir Robert, her friend from earlier who she was about to have a role in the hay with. Speaker 2 00:11:10 Yeah. He says, Your life remains in danger. It's like, no shit dude. Thanks for the advice. Speaker 0 00:11:16 She also meets in the confessional booth, the Spanish ambassador again, who's played by James Fran from Star Trek Discovery. Speaker 2 00:11:23 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Speaker 0 00:11:25 And he tells her that the king of Spain, who's Mary's husband, you know, is entranced with her and offers a marriage proposal. And she says, Oh my God, I like this line. Like my sister is not yet dead. And he says, Well, the king already finds her bed cold or something to that effect, Speaker 2 00:11:45 <laugh>. But it's like these marriage proposals. So the whole movie's about it gets old pretty fast. Speaker 0 00:11:53 Yeah, it does. But I, it's effective and we'll get to it later, but it's effective cuz not only are we sick of them, so is Elizabeth. So it gives us the exact right total, you know, right frame of mind for us to sympathize with Elizabeth. But we haven't, there's only the first of many. So let's, let's, let's get it. Speaker 2 00:12:11 Uh, Speaker 0 00:12:13 So Norfolk is in the royal bed chambers. He sees the queen on her death bed. He's trying to convince her to sign the order to kill Elizabeth, but she refuses Speaker 2 00:12:26 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Speaker 0 00:12:27 And Elizabeth is, you know, back at her house telling Robert what has happened. The king of Spain would only share her bed two or three times a year. Robert's like really only that Speaker 2 00:12:40 <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:12:40 We go back to the royal bed chambers, where now Mary is dead and like Norfolk is impatient, waiting for the priest statue declare her dead. Speaker 2 00:12:51 Oh, that Norfolk. What a guy. Speaker 0 00:12:53 And as soon as he does, um, Norfolk takes off Mary's ring. Speaker 2 00:12:58 So basically Liz is the queen now, which is exactly what everyone expected, but I thought it was gonna be a little bit harder than that. Speaker 0 00:13:05 Yeah, no, it's, it's, I mean she's dead and there is no other air or line of succession. So Yeah. Speaker 2 00:13:12 Also around this point is white out transitions, which I thought Speaker 0 00:13:15 Was interesting. Oh yeah, yeah. That Speaker 2 00:13:17 You don't see a lot of those. Speaker 0 00:13:19 No, no. So Elizabeth's entourage comes to see her all Giddy says that the Lord of Sussex, Oh, I guess he's an earl. I have it in my notes. The Earl of Sussex has arrived, uh, and he's the one who gives her the ring. The queen is dead long lived the queen. Speaker 2 00:13:35 Yeah. Speaker 0 00:13:37 So we go to her coronation. I'm not gonna go into much detail about it. It's, but here's the interesting thing that caught my attention. She's the queen of England, Ireland and France. Speaker 2 00:13:48 Well, yeah. Cause the UK Concord part of France at the time. Speaker 0 00:13:51 Ah, so it's not the whole of France. Just whatever part of France they had conquer. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:13:56 Uh, I don't think they ever conquered the whole country. Ok. So yeah. So I like the coronation scene. It looked really cool, but it also reminded me when she was walking was of the throne room scene from Star Wars Speaker 0 00:14:08 <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. We find out that Elizabeth has inherited a kingdom that's in disrepair. The navy has run down the treasury's empty, they have no standing army and their enemy is abroad and at home. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, apparently Mary Scott's wants the throne, as does Norfolk. And Sir William tells her that she will not be secure until she marries and has an air Speaker 2 00:14:30 Uhhuh <affirmative>. Speaker 0 00:14:31 But Elizabeth sort of think doesn't take this to heart. She starts having some parties meets a lot of folk <laugh>. And at one of these parties there's someone lurking in the background and it's Walham Elizabeth again meets a Spanish ambassador who sort of like tries to remind her like, you have this offer. And then Elizabeth notices Walsh and asks Sir William, who he is. Apparently he's recently returned from exile and she's, he's been appointed by Sir William to advise and protect Elizabeth. Speaker 2 00:15:03 Nice. Speaker 0 00:15:03 She also meets the French ambassador who brings an offer of marriage from the Duke of n j. Um, and here we have some politicking. Apparently the Duke of Js and the Mary of, what was it, Mary of ge has been like, uh, squatting on some land in Scotland, apparently <laugh> Speaker 2 00:15:27 <laugh>. So it is weird how you have the ambassador from France, but she's also the Queen of France. Speaker 0 00:15:31 Yeah, no, so Mary of geese is not the queen of France. She's just French. Speaker 2 00:15:36 That's right. Speaker 0 00:15:37 Yeah. Speaker 2 00:15:39 And I gotta say, it's interesting how she's depicted as so villas here. Cuz another movie came out, I think last year called Mary Queen of Scott's, where she's the main character, Elizabeth the villain. Speaker 0 00:15:49 Except we don't meet. That's the, that's also not Mary Queen of Scott's Speaker 2 00:15:54 Mary. Wait, does Mary, Mary Ge? Are you sure? Yes. All right. Fine. <laugh>, I wanna talk about Mary Queen of Scott's already. Speaker 0 00:16:03 I feel like she's not till the sequel. Speaker 2 00:16:06 No, she's definitely in this. Speaker 0 00:16:08 No, she's not. What Speaker 2 00:16:09 About the part where all the people get murdered in Scotland? Is that not her? Speaker 0 00:16:13 That's Mary of geese. Speaker 2 00:16:15 I think they're the same person. Speaker 0 00:16:16 They are not. Speaker 2 00:16:18 Hang on is Mary Geese and Mary Queen of Scott's the same person according to Cora? Not if you mean Mary the first of England. I don't know who. I mean it looks like No. Speaker 0 00:16:34 Yeah, it is not. Speaker 2 00:16:36 But she was called Bloody Mary. Speaker 0 00:16:39 Who? Mary V No, you're thinking of Mary the first. Speaker 2 00:16:42 Oh God. This is why I don't understand these people who are super into British history. Speaker 0 00:16:48 I'm not even that into it, but I like, it's, I think this is actually helped me sort of sort out who all the different mes are. Speaker 2 00:16:54 This is why I like Ireland. They never had kings except for that one guy. I joking. They had plenty of Speaker 0 00:16:59 Kings <laugh>. The other thing we have going on here, here in terms of intrigue is that washing him is greeting Norfolk. Apparently they know each other and is like surprised. No, just slightly disappointed. And then Elizabeth goes and dances with Lord Robert. He's like all GI and says he wants to see you in private kisses her on the neck in public. Which oh my, all of court a titter Speaker 2 00:17:23 So scandalous. I gotta say though, not you and Kris Reson can look cool wearing Panal loons Speaker 0 00:17:28 Those. Yeah. I was like, Wow, that that's an outfit now. You know, he really can't pull those off anymore. Speaker 2 00:17:35 Not anyone. I'd dare Speaker 0 00:17:36 Say <laugh>. Yeah, no, no. Anyway, so in the hallway to the royal bed chambers, all the ladies in waiting or, So what's the difference between a lady in waiting and, and a handmaid? I have no idea. I just call them both the same thing. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:17:52 I'm, they're probably interchangeable terms. Speaker 0 00:17:56 Oh, okay. Um, but yeah, they're all giddy and like, Oh, they're gonna, they're gonna have sex. So Wow. <laugh> and then Speaker 2 00:18:04 I interpret them more as like, as their boss bosses getting happier, their station in life is gonna Speaker 0 00:18:11 Increase. Well, I mean, they're all giddy because they, and they see Lord Robert coming and they know exactly what's going down in there. Speaker 2 00:18:18 Oh my gosh. They see everything Speaker 0 00:18:19 Before that happens though, Sir William comes by and tells them that he wants a sheet. See Elizabeth's bedsheets every morning to ensure her quote unquote proper functions. Speaker 2 00:18:30 Well there's a quote here where he says, Your body belongs to the state, which is so sinister and scary. Speaker 0 00:18:37 The, it's, it's even worse. It's Herman's body and person are no longer her own property. They belong to the state. It's like, wow. That's Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:18:47 Talk about the price of being a queen. Yeah. You know, Speaker 0 00:18:52 But yeah, so we have this quite long love scene between Robert and Elizabeth as they're like undressing each other and kissing each other. And here's in my notes, I have so much for the Virgin Queen <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:19:05 Oh, that wasn't her though. The love is Victoria. Speaker 0 00:19:08 No, this is her. Speaker 2 00:19:10 This is her. Oh, okay. We've established that. I can't keep them all straight. Right. <laugh> go Speaker 0 00:19:15 At me. Queen Victoria is the grandmother of like three different monarchs during World War II of World War I. Speaker 2 00:19:24 Yeah, I suppose you're right. Whatever. Speaker 0 00:19:26 So definitely not a version. <laugh> Norfolk comes to see Elizabeth. Elizabeth, She's still in bed and he like barges through like everyone, even though said she's not, she's not, you know, um, ready yet. And he says, I have some grave news. Apparently a Mary of geese, who is the aunt to the Duke of n j who we have not met yet, but we will Uhhuh <affirmative> has increased the French garrison on Scotland by 4,000 men. Norfolk wants to march immediately upon Scotland. Whereas Elizabeth wants to send emissaries. He says there's no time. And all of the other people, all of her advisors agree with Norfolk, even Lord Robert. And so she turns to Walham and says, and asks what he thinks. And he says to move slowly and starts quoting mucky of Ellie Speaker 2 00:20:15 <laugh>. Well he, what? He seems like a total fanboy. Speaker 0 00:20:18 I mean, do like, cuz that caught my attention cuz she's the, like, he starts saying, a Prince should do this. I was like, But she's a queen. Oh, this is, this is, he's quoting real printer pair, which I have a sidebar. I have a terrible story about the, Speaker 2 00:20:36 I gotta hear it now. Speaker 0 00:20:37 All right. So this is in, this is in college. I had, I forget what even the class was. I think it was ethics maybe or something. I don't know. The teacher insisted that it was not Ill print ape, but it was called Two Principle by Mave. Uh, and I was, I was like, uh, or like she wrote it on board. I was talking Mave. And so talking about two principal, like, um, Do you mean Ill print ape like the Prince says it? No, no. I mean it's called Two Print. Are You, Are You Sure? And insisted and kept insisting on it and gave me a lower grade because I insisted on it. Speaker 2 00:21:15 Wow. That's too bad. Speaker 0 00:21:17 Well, I was Speaker 2 00:21:18 The name of Wikipedia. Speaker 0 00:21:20 I did. And I was like, and I like even showed people around me, they're just like, even though you're definitely right, I don't know what's going on here. Speaker 2 00:21:27 That's really Speaker 0 00:21:28 Weird. Yeah, Yeah. Uh, anyways, that was my, that's my story about the Prince. Speaker 2 00:21:32 That's your the print story. Speaker 0 00:21:34 <laugh> the Handmaids are helping Elizabeth get changed where we see a thunder. And this is a, this is very like, um, it's a montage. You get the blood in the river Dead soldiers. We get the title card of Scotland. We see all these defeated troops. Speaker 2 00:21:49 Yeah. One of the dead bodies looks like live Schriver <laugh>. That's one of my notes. Speaker 0 00:21:55 Interesting. I didn't notice him. It probably, he may have been, I don't know. What was he doing in 1998? Speaker 2 00:21:59 He's probably pretty young. Speaker 0 00:22:01 Yeah. And this French woman is stopping her soldiers from finishing off a soldier. And instead she wipes off hi wipes off his brow with, with the French flag or like a piece of the French flag and tell sends him back to the Queen. So this is Mary Geese. This is not Mary the first of, Speaker 2 00:22:22 Even though it's in Scotland. Movie Speaker 0 00:22:28 Says, Yeah. Sends her back with a message basically. So Elizabeth gets the message and none of her counselors are around. She goes to some private chambers and sees a portrait of her father. And while she's in there washing them, finds her. Speaker 2 00:22:42 So really quickly she sees the portrait of Henry vii and she's like, Father, please, I wanna be like, you help me rule like you. And it's supposed to be this big dramatic moment, but it's hard cause Henry VIII is such a joke now Speaker 0 00:22:59 <laugh>, Speaker 2 00:23:00 Right? He's the one with the wives. He's the one that the song is about him. Speaker 0 00:23:05 Which song? He's Speaker 2 00:23:06 The fat one. I'm Henry Am My Hermans Hermits. You know that song? Speaker 0 00:23:11 I've never heard that now. Speaker 2 00:23:12 Oh my gosh. I'm gonna have to send it to you. It's super casy. Speaker 0 00:23:15 Yeah. I'm curious <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:23:17 Yeah. It's just funny that he's this heroic king in the movie where I've literally never seen him depicted like that in and the other medium, usually the opposite. Speaker 0 00:23:25 Is he the topic of the Tudors TV show? Speaker 2 00:23:29 I haven't seen that. Speaker 0 00:23:30 I have never either, but I think he is. But yeah, I don't know. So he says that she's, he's supposed to protect her and she says that she's, because of this whole ordeal with the war on Scotland, she's been proven unfit to rule the bishops apparently wouldn't let proper soldiers be sent and said like sent to child soldiers. Oh. And all of the bishops are against her. Speaker 2 00:23:56 Yeah. He also says that she's not expected to survive for that much longer. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting too. Speaker 0 00:24:02 So Elizabeth goes to find Robert, who apparently has, was out hunting Speaker 2 00:24:08 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Speaker 0 00:24:09 Instead of, you know, being there to, you know, help either comfort her or counsel her. And Sir William arrives with an emissary from Mary of GE who says that they promise no more attacks if she considers the proposal of the Duke of Enio. Elizabeth concedes that she can invite the duke so that they can at least meet. And Robert is jealous of course. And they fight. And Sir William reveals that Lord Robert's father was a trader and that he will probably end up the same way. Speaker 2 00:24:42 So when do you think about Robert? What are your thoughts? How do you feel? Speaker 0 00:24:47 I couldn't take him seriously. Speaker 2 00:24:50 Yeah. Speaker 0 00:24:51 Well one, he always reminds like the, his look just reminded me of, uh, the Captain Hook from once upon a time. Yeah. And he just played, I feel like he wasn't quite right for the role. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and like, he couldn't do the smolder. So he like over acted. Carolyn thought the exact same thing. <laugh>, he's like, there's something that didn't just didn't work with him. Speaker 2 00:25:15 I feel like he's one of those people that you see in older movies where the main character is super into them and the audience cannot figure out why Speaker 0 00:25:23 <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. I could see it. And I think I, I think it's not a, not a fault of the actor. I think it's just Miscasting. Speaker 2 00:25:31 I mean, regardless of what it is, the whole kind of movie's built on this and it's not great. It's not great. Tab Speaker 0 00:25:38 <laugh>. We see Norfolk with his spy, the woman, I guess. Is she like a maid or one of the ladies in waiting? Speaker 2 00:25:47 Yeah. See that's something interesting I thinking about this with the Game of Thrones. Yeah. So back in the day where they had no technology, but you had a lot of labor, you need a lot of people to do all the stuff, right? Yeah. Wash your clothes, cut the wood, burn the stuff, heat your house, et cetera, needs a lot of people. And you better hope they're all trustworthy. Cuz it'd be really easy to spy on you. Cause there's people everywhere. Yeah. I think even Elizabeth says, Listen, I have no privacy. Listen, Speaker 0 00:26:14 Listeners can't see me raising my eyebrows so high that they're, they're off of my forehead. Because you had the such a problem with this exact plot in the King's man. Speaker 2 00:26:28 In the Kings man. Oh, right. Speaker 0 00:26:31 The, the fact that all the servants were this network of spies. Speaker 2 00:26:34 No, that's the one thing in the Kings man. I did not have a problem. As you recall. You can go back and Speaker 0 00:26:42 That you, you were like, this was like, that's it. That's their whole plot. That's why they're so good. It's like, that is, that's, that's it. You, you were so like, you're like, how are they, how would they get all that information from just having the servants all tell people stuff? Speaker 2 00:26:58 I think we may be misremembering. Speaker 0 00:27:00 Oh, I remember it very well. But you know, listeners go roll back the table. Listen, you can go ahead and listen to our coverage of the Kings Man. And you let us know who was actually right. Speaker 2 00:27:10 But for now, let's focus on Elizabeth. Speaker 0 00:27:12 Yes. Yes. So we see, Yeah. So Nofo with Yeah. His spy, they're getting dressed. He says he wants to see Elizabeth fails. That's why he's going to this meeting. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And we go over to Elizabeth who is practicing her speech to all the bishops. Speaker 2 00:27:30 Yeah. This was fine. I Speaker 0 00:27:31 Like that. And she's like imagining all the bishops and like even like going to the rooms, imagining walking down that, that, uh, walkway mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And she's like starting her speech over and over again. Starting different parts of it. Zach is someone who likes to do public speaking, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I would say. Yeah. I would say how did this would, how did this strike you? As I liked it in terms of practicing and Yeah. <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:27:57 Yeah. It was funny and it was a nice break from her just kind of staring like so serious all the time. Speaker 0 00:28:05 So the thing that she's trying to get through is, it's called the act of uniformity. We go to her, like it transitions into her actually making her speech. There's a lot of, you know, negative sounds from all the bishops. <laugh>. We also found that washing locked a couple of the most outspoken bishops in the room. Speaker 2 00:28:23 Yeah. More than a couple. Like seven Speaker 0 00:28:26 <laugh>. Like seven of 'em. Ok. I I I accounted that. Right. Okay. Speaker 2 00:28:29 Yeah. Speaker 0 00:28:30 And in addition to the, to the bishops, there's also like her counsel and one of them proposes that, you know, if you are married, this would all be, you know, resolved. And she points out that you, sir, have been married, divorced twice and on an hour on your third wife. Speaker 2 00:28:47 Eh, got him <laugh>. My note is not this marriage shit again, Speaker 0 00:28:52 <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:28:53 It was also funny, the multiple divorce guy, he even uses the term sanctity of marriage. Speaker 0 00:28:57 Right. Uh uh, which Speaker 2 00:28:59 Is a little bit dated now, but back in the day when gay marriage was an issue, that's something people would say Speaker 0 00:29:04 A lot. I mean, let's not get into politics here, but Yeah. Speaker 2 00:29:09 <laugh>, let's get back into Elizabeth in politics. Much more relevant. Speaker 0 00:29:12 There. Go. There you go. Anyway, so Washington frees the bishops and tells them that Elizabeth has won the argument by five votes. So yeah, if they'd been there they could have actually got in there favor, but Oh no. Oh, well, yeah. Have the Duke of en ju arriving by boat. And I, I like this cuz you have this one guy in the front who you would rightfully assume is the Duke of en and as he's play, like he's coming, he has this whole band entourage around him. And like, as the supposed Duke is about to greet Elizabeth, this flutist comes up and starts like playing really obnoxiously right. At Elizabeth. And then reveals that he's actually the Duke. Speaker 2 00:29:54 Yeah. It's a bold proposal strategy here Con Speaker 0 00:29:57 Played by Vincent Cassell. Do you re you recognize him? Speaker 2 00:30:01 No, Speaker 0 00:30:01 He's in a lot of stuff. He is mm-hmm. <affirmative>, He's in the second, uh, or he is in Oceans 12 as well as I think one of the born movies. And he's in a lot of great stuff. He's a great French actor. Speaker 2 00:30:11 Nice. Speaker 0 00:30:12 And he starts saying some things in French to Elizabeth that the, the, he's very aggressive. You'll translate <laugh>, but they soften it a little cuz like I asked Carolyn who's she speaks French. It's like, No, no, that's, uh, that's a lot more vulgar than what the subtitles say. What he's proposing. Speaker 2 00:30:31 Oh, my sensitive Eliza Beaners Speaker 0 00:30:34 <laugh>. Yeah. So we co over to the Vatican where apparently they say that there's a priest visiting from England and it's Daniel Craig. Hey. Speaker 2 00:30:44 All right. It took so long for him to show up. Speaker 0 00:30:47 Yeah. Speaker 2 00:30:48 It's funny he doesn't like that different than he does in James Bond. Speaker 0 00:30:51 Well, no, I mean, well this is what, 1998? So this is what's eight years before Casino Royale? Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. He is playing John Ballard, who like we said is a priest from England. The Pope asks, uh, Ballard, if the bishop still support Elizabeth. He says no, they're praying that England may be recover from heresy. And so the Pope says, Hmm, well we might need to do something more. Let me prey on this matter. Speaker 2 00:31:17 <laugh>, let me prey on that. It's just a funny way to put it. Speaker 0 00:31:20 Yeah, yeah. We go back to England where Robert is on a boat with Elizabeth. Everyone's on boats. They're, it's like, yeah, I don't know. This is a thing that we don't, people don't really do anymore. Which I think we should bring it back. You know, just have just people like, instead of, you know, picnicking everyone just on boats and having fun and drinking. I mean, I guess that's kind of what you do when you're like tubing, but, Right. Eh, it's a bit more of upscale with this. Speaker 2 00:31:47 Yeah. It's much more upscale than like pontoon boat or paddle boat <laugh>, which is also what I've seen. But yeah, these parties that Elizabeth goes to, they're just so over the top nice. Like the nice scenes, like the aforementioned ta chi, everything's just great. It's so bright. Everyone's so attractive. It's, it's just great Speaker 0 00:32:05 Firework's happening. It's all, it all looks great. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so Robert is on the boat with Elizabeth and he's like trying, jokingly, seemingly trying to propose to Elizabeth and then is like, but no actually, how do we get married? Seriously. And over on another boat, the Duke of Vanji is noticing how close that they are. And Robert even like calls over to the Spanish ambassador who apparently is also a priest and asks if, you know he can marry them. And he is like, uh, I don't think I'd be able to help you out there. And as all this, you know, this, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Speaker 2 00:32:43 Meed. Speaker 0 00:32:43 Merriment. Thank you. Yes, exactly. All this merriment and joyful, this is happening, right? One of the guards gets on the boat that on the royal boat gets hit by an arrow and like bleeds on Elizabeth's dress. And then another arrow nearly hits the queen. Speaker 2 00:32:59 Oh no, not the dress. Yeah. This part was great. So finally some excitement Speaker 0 00:33:03 <laugh>. So the queen is taken to safety with her Handmaids. Apparently Walham is wasn't there. And like Williams, like, where have you been? And he also says that No wants to enter the royal bed chambers. Robert tries to get through but can't. And when he can't, uh, he sees a Spanish ambassador who apparently wants a word Speaker 2 00:33:24 <laugh>. Yeah. I, I like she puts Francis on the case and he's like, Yeah, let's make it happen. Speaker 0 00:33:30 Washing him is conferring with a spy to determine one of his spies to determine who did it. They're, they theorize. All right. Not the French ambassador because you know, he was there also not the Spanish ambassador, cuz he was also there. And it was not subtle enough for the French ambassador or the Spanish ambassador <laugh>. And so not subtle. Hmm. What about Norfolk? Speaker 2 00:33:52 Yeah, like, come on, can you break? Yeah. Motive in opportunity. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:33:57 But yeah, and the, and then the spy theorize. All right. If it was him, that means he's not in league with the Spanish either. Speaker 2 00:34:05 Right. Speaker 0 00:34:06 So we see Robert talking with the Spanish ambassador who says that, you know, if you converted, if you went to the pure faith, you'd gain a lot of new friends and they could help keep his queens safe. But he refuses. Speaker 2 00:34:19 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Speaker 0 00:34:20 So Sir William is trying to convince Elizabeth to get married as she's changing out of the blood stained clothes. Speaker 2 00:34:27 He had another marriage conversation. Gimme a break. Speaker 0 00:34:30 He even brings in the French ambassador who wants an answer to the Duke's proposal. And he says, Well, you know, maybe the reason you don't answer is because you already have a lover. And he like leaves in a huff. Speaker 2 00:34:44 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Speaker 0 00:34:44 Answer. William says that everyone knows that she's sleeping with Robert and you, but you cannot marry Robert because he's already married. Speaker 2 00:34:54 Dun, dun. Shocking revelation. Speaker 0 00:34:57 I actually did not see that coming. No, Speaker 2 00:34:59 Me neither. <laugh>. It's pretty effective. And we already don't like Robert that much. So Speaker 0 00:35:04 Yeah, let's say like eh, Right. Yeah, no, like you, like you said, I think if there was someone who we thought actually was more charming, maybe it would work more. I mean there was still a surprise I think that it would work even better that way. Speaker 2 00:35:18 It just makes me wonder, is the movie trying to make us not like Speaker 0 00:35:21 Him? I think we're supposed to like him in the beginning, but as Elizabeth stops liking him and we're supposed to follow that same path as her, Speaker 2 00:35:29 I'm gonna speak for you. I just never liked Speaker 0 00:35:31 Him. I didn't dislike him. I just didn't see the appeal. Speaker 2 00:35:34 There you go. Speaker 0 00:35:35 At court, Lord Robert arrives, there are whispers and someone is about to call him out and say what really? You show your face here when Elizabeth arrives and we have these performers at dinner doing a musical skit about the Spanish fleet and English pirates. Speaker 2 00:35:53 You gotta mention they're dressed as boats. Speaker 0 00:35:56 Oh yeah, that's true Chef. Yeah. Yes. Speaker 2 00:35:58 <laugh>. Yeah. He doesn't make 'em like that anymore. <laugh> also echos since we're in Pantaloons again <laugh>, they still look stupid Speaker 0 00:36:05 <laugh>. So the Spanish ambassador is not amused by this musical performance. And he like is seated Nixon to Norfolk and is saying, you know, we're waiting for you to make your move unless you are actually already in league with Mary Queen of Scott's and you plan to take her bride. She's mention she's not shown. Speaker 2 00:36:26 Okay. Yeah. I wanted you to be the one to mix up the Mary's for a change, but I was wrong. Speaker 0 00:36:34 Yeah. So the Duke apparently is ill and didn't attend the dinner, which Elizabeth finds suspicious <laugh>. So she go declares like to the entire party that I, you know, she wants to give this ring to the duke as a token of love. Let me go to him and give it to him. And like the ambassador French ambassadors trying to stop her as is Sir William. But she's like, Nope, I'm going and finds the duke amongst a half dressed, you know, orgy basically. Speaker 2 00:37:10 Yeah. You could call it the or room. I agree. Speaker 0 00:37:13 And the Duke is like behind the, uh, what do you call those, like four posts their bed and you see anette of him. Turns out he's wearing women's clothing, which Elizabeth Speaker 2 00:37:27 Also scandalized Speaker 0 00:37:28 Doesn't seem to like be bothered by, but is also just like, you can't be my king. Like that. Speaker 2 00:37:34 She seems to think it's funny. Speaker 0 00:37:36 Yeah. I think she's mo I think she's mostly just relieved cuz he's like, there's no way that this man can be become king. My, Speaker 2 00:37:45 She's like, yeah, the perfect excuse not to marry him. Speaker 0 00:37:48 She leaves returns to the dinner and tells Sir William that there will be no more talk of marriage. Which I'm sure you were relieved by. Speaker 2 00:37:55 I was You are correct. Were you? Speaker 0 00:37:58 Huh? It didn't bother me. Well, I mean because I, I knew there would be a lot of this. I assume there would be, because this is, you know, this is an age where even more so than now, women have, you know, very little. It's, that's what it's about. And their only purpose to society was to marry and have children Speaker 2 00:38:19 And occasionally to rule the country, which is Speaker 0 00:38:21 What she's doing. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I assume there'd be a lot of this. And I was hoping as we do see that there'd be also be her trying to change the tide there. Speaker 2 00:38:30 Mm-hmm. Speaker 0 00:38:30 <affirmative>, we have Elizabeth like, I think she, that catharsis of, there's no way I'm gonna have to marry the Duke of Van. Ju just sort of comes out cuz she just starts cackling and laughing. Speaker 2 00:38:41 Yeah. I described as Fri Allen Speaker 0 00:38:44 <laugh> calls out Lord Robert and asks him to dance the same dance as the last time. Speaker 2 00:38:50 Mm-hmm. Speaker 0 00:38:50 <affirmative>. And they're like talking while they're dancing. She's like asking him if she, if he loves his wife and she's like, he's like, No, because I love you and you're, you're still my Elizabeth. And she's like, No, I am no man's. Elizabeth stops the dance and leaves and everyone stares at Robert. Speaker 2 00:39:10 Everyone's so sad. <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:39:13 And now Robert is scheming with the Spanish ambassador who says that there may be a way to gain her affection back and save her life from Norfolk's hand. Speaker 2 00:39:24 What a nice guy. This still sucks Speaker 0 00:39:27 <laugh>. So the Pope is stamping a decree which would deprive Elizabeth of her throne and absolves her subjects of their loyalty to her. And he also decrees that any assassin who kills her will be welcomed into heaven. Speaker 2 00:39:44 Hmm. What you almost might call it a fatwa Speaker 0 00:39:47 Go off to the coast of England where Ballard arrives. He's met by Norfolk as, and a few other people including Thomas Elliott who is washing him. Spy Speaker 2 00:39:57 Love this scene, Great scene. Speaker 0 00:39:58 Ballard goes over to talk to him and he reveals that he knows that he is Wal spies, who he Thomas tries to deny it. So when he does, he Ballard drags him over to a very shallow pond and beats him with a rock. Speaker 2 00:40:16 This is Speaker 0 00:40:17 Great body there. Speaker 2 00:40:18 It was so exciting spy action literally and figuratively, but also just visually, finally they're outside something different than just inside a castle. Speaker 0 00:40:29 So I will tell you at one point Carolyn wasn't sure if people were in the castle or the tower cuz they look the same. Speaker 2 00:40:38 <laugh>. I mean, come on. Yeah. Carol, what do you expect? How would you expect to know the difference? Just from the inside? Speaker 0 00:40:43 Uh, yeah. So we go over back to the castle where one of the handmaids is trying on the queen's dresses and was told why like, you know, the other Handmaids are like telling her not to do it. She says, then why shouldn't I? We also see that Ballard is let into the castle by Norfolk and the Spanish ambassador and that, uh, Norfolk, uh, spy, the handmade is also there. We cut over to Robert having sex with that handmade, I don't remember which one it was the, but the one who was wearing the queen's clothing and she's, you know, being very vocal and moaning and then starts screaming. Not like a good scream. Speaker 2 00:41:21 This part was crazy. Speaker 0 00:41:22 And like Robert is trying to shush her, but she's like not stopping screaming. Speaker 2 00:41:28 Right. Speaker 0 00:41:29 So often another part of the castle Elizabeth is calling for cat, her seemingly her lead, uh, handmade. And she sees B Ballard just walking towards her with a hood and a cloak and is crossing himself. Now this he does okay. Doesn't he look cool? Speaker 2 00:41:47 Yeah, it was great. Speaker 0 00:41:49 <laugh>. So I will tell you now that this, that scene in Elizabeth is what convinced Barbara Broccoli, one of the producers of the bond films, to cast him Speaker 2 00:41:59 Really Speaker 0 00:42:00 As James Bond. That is like, just like everyone thinks it's layer cake, that that got him the role of bond. But it's this scene just him looking so coolly, confidently walking just is like, no, that's that's my guy. That's my next call. Well, Speaker 2 00:42:14 Confident and also scary. Speaker 0 00:42:16 Yeah. Oh yeah. Speaker 2 00:42:17 Especially when he disappears. Does the Batman disappear a minute later? But, so I'm surprised it was just that. But also the part where he kills that dude also was kind. Speaker 0 00:42:26 But that's the one that I, it was a documentary, I think it was called being James Bond, um, where she calls out that scene in particular, which like it was, which she also gave me even more incentive to watch this movie Speaker 2 00:42:38 <laugh>. So I wonder what scene Roger Moore did to make her pick Speaker 0 00:42:42 Him? Well she, that was before her time. She was Speaker 2 00:42:45 Still make them pick him. Speaker 0 00:42:46 Oh yeah. Um, I'm not sure. Good question. I mean probably a lot of his stuff in the Saint, Speaker 2 00:42:51 I wanna watch them all. But yeah, it also run to be a little bit of Star Wars where he looked kinda like at and Skywalker Speaker 0 00:42:59 <laugh>. Oh that yeah. Yeah. It's very stiff. Yeah. <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative> as Ballard is walking towards her, you know, so coolly and confidently. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Elizabeth is demanding to know who he is and he refuses to answer her. And then at the last, like he's crossing himself and then the last minute Elizabeth is called away by Ka and this is where he like, just very, very smoothly, just turns aside and disappears. Speaker 2 00:43:26 It was great. Yeah. He doesn't need to listen to Elizabeth like Hebrew national hotdogs. He answers to a higher authority. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:43:35 <laugh>, how long have you had that one in your back pocket? Speaker 2 00:43:38 Only a few minutes ago. Speaker 0 00:43:42 Uh, so they found the Handmaid's body. Apparently the dress was poisoned, Speaker 2 00:43:47 Which I was not aware you could poison a dress. Speaker 0 00:43:50 Yeah. But it's revealed it was actually a gift and it was made from French silk. So this port's fingers at the French Speaker 2 00:43:57 <laugh>. Yeah. Not exactly ironclad evidence there, but okay. Speaker 0 00:44:01 As for how it was poisoned, I'm not sure. But I mean, Well here's the thing though. It's mm-hmm <affirmative> been done or at least proposed to have been done to Fidel Castro. Speaker 2 00:44:12 Not a poisoned dress. Speaker 0 00:44:14 No, but a poisoned clothing. Speaker 2 00:44:17 Yeah. Speaker 0 00:44:18 So it's possible. Anyways, so we go over to Scotland where Walham is meeting with Mary of geese and the Duke of n Speaker 2 00:44:27 Mm. Speaker 0 00:44:28 And so the Duke is very likely very drunk and he gets sent away. And so it's just mar of ge and Wal him talking waling him, acknowledges that Elizabeth rules with her heart and not her head. And he says that that, you know, he knows that she may not survive much longer and that the wise thing to do would be to get in bed with either France or Spain, Speaker 2 00:44:51 Literally and figuratively. Speaker 0 00:44:53 And so yeah. At this point, yeah, Mary Geese is definitely coming on to him and trying to seduce him and so they leave it unad what, what happens next? Speaker 2 00:45:06 <laugh> also got the, I also kinda got the impression here that Francis was thinking about portraying Les. Speaker 0 00:45:12 Well that's what it, I think that's what it was made to sound like. Yes. Speaker 2 00:45:16 Right. Speaker 0 00:45:17 So we go back to England where Robert is trying to talk with Elizabeth in private says that she's in danger. But the king of Spain can guarantee her safety and her throne if he, if she were to marry him to get an alliance. Speaker 2 00:45:32 Oh no. Speaker 0 00:45:33 So now he is, Yeah, he's not even trying, which I thought it was an ironic echo of the very beginning where he was, you know, outraged that she was thinking about that proposal from the king. But now he's the one who's presenting it to her Speaker 2 00:45:49 Yeah's like, don't marry anyone other than me. Oh wait, yeah, it's falling apart. Speaker 0 00:45:53 So, but she refuses and he leaves in a Huff <laugh>. So now we go back to Scotland where the Duke of Enjo is crying over the dead body of Mary of GE and she was found naked in bed. So I guess that's what happened. Speaker 2 00:46:07 <laugh>? I guess so. Speaker 0 00:46:09 So seemingly Wal killed Mary of geese and made it look like an accident. Maybe Speaker 2 00:46:16 <laugh> the cliche every but actually did act Speaker 0 00:46:19 <laugh>. We go back to England where Sir William is advising Elizabeth to make a statement to dissociate her from the death and was giving her all these things. Not not advising, it's more saying you must do this, you must do that. Speaker 2 00:46:33 How dare you Speaker 0 00:46:34 Is you know, realizing that no, you keep saying I must, but if I keep doing all these things you say I must do, we'll be a much weaker country and we'll be more likely a part of Spain or France. And she decides at that point she's gonna follow her own instincts, not Sir Williams. And uh, gives him a Lord's ship so he can retire comfortably. Speaker 2 00:46:58 Mandatory retirement you might say. Yep. Speaker 0 00:46:59 <laugh>. And at this point, Walham quotes more of the prince to her and tells her about Ballard says that Norfolk is also growing in power and they need to act soon. Speaker 2 00:47:13 <laugh> took him long enough. Seriously? Speaker 0 00:47:15 Yeah, well he needed to gather all of his information and then find the opportune moment to present it to Elizabeth Speaker 2 00:47:22 <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:47:23 So Elizabeth tells Washam to find Ballard, they go searching for Lord Arundel <laugh>, which makes like all these names are Ron Norfolk is like, wow, they Virginia really just took all of these names, didn't they? Speaker 2 00:47:36 It's the American way. Speaker 0 00:47:38 I mean I suppose Ver wasn't Virginia named after Elizabeth as the Virgin Queen? Speaker 2 00:47:45 I guess so. Yeah, Speaker 0 00:47:46 Probably. That's probably makes sense then why, why all these names are out here. Speaker 2 00:47:49 It's a theme. Our state is gonna have a Speaker 0 00:47:52 Theme. So they're searching the home. I like this. He finds a hidden door where John Ballard is there inside doing free stuff room. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:48:03 Spy stuff. Speaker 0 00:48:04 And speaking of, so we next go to Ballard being interrogated by Walham. And I like this cuz like he's definitely being hung upside down, but the camera is at first on, at his point of view. So you see Walham upside down, Speaker 2 00:48:21 But get used to that Daniel. Speaker 0 00:48:23 Yeah, actually Carolyn even joked like, well at least there's no rope, you know, not at rope there to hit his balls. <laugh>. Right. I was like, no, just fire to torture and burn him. Speaker 2 00:48:32 <laugh>. So I think I read somewhere that this thing of hanging someone like that is something the Spanish Inquisition would do to Speaker 0 00:48:41 People. I believe it. Yeah. I don't know. But I did notice that his like screaming when he was being tortured is like the exact same sounds is like when he gets tortured he can see royal. Speaker 2 00:48:51 Well that's not exactly surprising. Speaker 0 00:48:53 No, but it's like, it's like, oh he's same back. I mean it's just like those like cuz I've seen that movie a lot so it's like, uh, you know, just brought me back. Oh, oh yeah. <laugh>. But yeah, so he's not talking and then he gets burned, like, Speaker 2 00:49:07 See you later. We won't be seeing him again. Speaker 0 00:49:10 Yeah, yeah. Sad <laugh>. Uh, but Elizabeth sees all the letters from Rome and then Washam tells her the names of all the conspirators that she, that he got from, from Ballard, including Lord Robert Speaker 2 00:49:28 Another. So shocking. Speaker 0 00:49:30 Well I mean we already knew this because he was conspiring with the Scottish ambassador. Not Scottish Speaker 2 00:49:39 <laugh>, Scottish Speaker 0 00:49:40 Panish Ambassador. I think I got, cuz I think James Freeney is actually Scottish. So that's, Yeah. Anyways, apparently also from Lord Ballard, they found a letter from the Pope to Norfolk saying that he recommends he take Mary Queen of Scott's there. She's mentioned again as his bride, Speaker 2 00:50:00 But this is the proof, The proof they need that he is trying to overthrow Elizabeth. Speaker 0 00:50:04 Well they need that, but what they need is for that letter to be signed by Norfolk. Cuz that would actually constitute treason on his part. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so she's like, All right, so set that up, make it happen. The handmade gives Norfolk the letter, he signs it and gives it back to her to deliver it. Speaker 2 00:50:24 Well, so he signs it out looking at it Is the idea? Speaker 0 00:50:27 No, it's just that he signs it. Speaker 2 00:50:29 Oh, he doesn't know that they know other Speaker 0 00:50:31 Words. Yes. That's that's the thing. So it's entrapment basically. Speaker 2 00:50:34 <laugh>. It's not technically entrapment, but I know what you mean. Speaker 0 00:50:37 No, I'm not the, like it is a trap for him. Speaker 2 00:50:40 It's a trap. Speaker 0 00:50:41 It's not a, not legal like the legal, you know, entrapment you would get, you know? Right. But the general term of entrapment Speaker 2 00:50:48 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It's the Sean Connery movie. Speaker 0 00:50:51 Can we cover that? It's not really leaves. I do wanna re-watch that though. Speaker 2 00:50:55 Have you seen Time Bandits? I watched that the other day in Sean. Con's. Speaker 0 00:50:59 Oh, Speaker 2 00:51:00 It's not in a lot, but he is in it. Speaker 0 00:51:02 Okay. Right. Anyway, so we get another montage. This is, this is like the, the Godfather, um, montage. Speaker 2 00:51:10 That's right. Where's just going through killing everybody. Speaker 0 00:51:12 Yep. Yep. So the, like we see all these red weapons being ready, rapers swords, everything, uh, while washing watches. And we see, you know, one of the traders is on the crapper. What? Yeah. We see people being killed. We see that Bishop who was, you know, in trying to lead the, uh oh, who got it? The bishop who was him in prison during the vote also being killed. Well first he's doing some like self iation stuff. Speaker 2 00:51:43 Oh yeah. They totally did that. That's like DaVinci code stuff. I gotta say, I finally can die happy having seen Christopher les's butt <laugh>. I knew I wanted to, but I gotta Speaker 0 00:51:55 Uhhuh. Speaker 2 00:51:56 Thanks movie. Speaker 0 00:51:57 As this is happening, Norfolk is having sex with the spy. Speaker 2 00:52:01 Yeah. The Speaker 0 00:52:02 Spanish ambassador gets poisoned and then the, the guards burst in on Norfolk. Wash Washam tells him that he's been being arrested and shows them the signed letter that's proof of his treason and will be sent to the tower <laugh>. So Lord Arundel is seemingly the Lord, the duke, the whatever of Essex, Earl of Essex. Speaker 2 00:52:26 I know, dude. I don't really care about any of these people's Speaker 0 00:52:28 Titles and Well, so he's apparently, so he's the one, the one who they were looking for and found the secret door. So he's also the one who gave Elizabeth the coat in the beginning. Speaker 2 00:52:38 Oh, okay. Speaker 0 00:52:39 So a guy. Yeah. So he asked, he and his wife are like begging for mercy from Elizabeth in the tower and he is like, I won't forget your mercy. So they are not killed seemingly Speaker 2 00:52:50 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Speaker 0 00:52:52 But we have the last of the conspirators who is Lord Robert who said, who is like waiting, been waiting for wash him to come to take him. Speaker 2 00:53:01 Yeah. He says, What kept you? I've been waiting, which I love it when a character wanna know these movies says something, a serial killer would say <laugh>, and they get arrested, Speaker 0 00:53:09 But it's not Walham there, it's actually Elizabeth. Right. And who tells him that all of his friends have been sent to the tower and she asked, What should I do with you? And why, why did you betray me? Speaker 2 00:53:23 Why so why Speaker 0 00:53:25 The most stupid answer I've could have predicted to ever see, you know, coming from this, you know, is it not plain enough? It's no easy thing to be loved by the queen. It could corrupt any man. Like really? That's your reasoning. Speaker 2 00:53:41 Could it though? As you might say, Yeah, Speaker 0 00:53:43 I'm right. Yeah. <laugh>. And so he says, All right, enough just kill me. But she decides instead to let him live. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Walham advises against us, but says, No, we'll let him live to remind me how close I came to danger. And we see Norfolk getting beheaded and all of the other conspirators except for the two, you know, the, the couple have also been decapitated and all their heads are on spikes. Net start Speaker 2 00:54:11 Style. Yeah. <laugh>. So happy Speaker 0 00:54:13 Washing them. And Elizabeth are talking in a church and she's, you know, saying, you know, Must I be alone? And Wal says, And you know, the men need something to look up to, to be inspired by the divine. And as they're talking, they're underneath this giant statue of the Virgin Mary who is, you know, a very big part of Catholic culture. And they note that, you know, she's such a big part and they need something to replace her. Speaker 2 00:54:40 You might almost say that as a woman, she can be destroyed. She can't be hurt, but as a symbol, she could be something more <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:54:50 Uhhuh. Speaker 2 00:54:50 Yep. Sooner, sooner later. It always comes back to Batman. Speaker 0 00:54:53 Yeah. And I'm glad it just wasn't a quote from the Dark Knight Returns. Speaker 2 00:54:58 <laugh>. Yeah. It's a nice change of pace, isn't it? Yep. Speaker 0 00:55:01 I, I, I like, I mean I like the Nolan movies, so I approve of that. So she goes through another montage where she's getting her hair cut, her handmade is crying as she's doing it, we also get her flashing back through the whole movie. And then you see her with her like very, very like short hair Right. And like framed in white and also dressed in white and tells her Handmaids that I have become a virgin. It's like, is that how that works? Speaker 2 00:55:30 I guess. So I wanna see a picture of this movie from the perspective of The Handmaids and we get call it the Ladies in Waitings Tale. Speaker 0 00:55:38 Ah, Speaker 2 00:55:41 Seems like they have a lot going on. Speaker 0 00:55:43 Yeah, yeah. No, there's a lot going on with them. So she enters her court with her new look with a like a, a wig face painted all white. Yeah. And she's all again dressed in all white. And she declares that she's married to England, takes her throne and we get the end cards like 10 of them. Speaker 2 00:56:06 <laugh> <laugh> Elizabeth. Speaker 0 00:56:08 Yeah. Elizabeth Rain for 40 years Washington remained her most trusted advisor to the end. She never married and never saw, uh, Robert again in private. But on her death bed she was said to have whispered his name Speaker 2 00:56:24 Rose, but Speaker 0 00:56:25 <laugh>. By the time of her death, England was the richest and most powerful country in Europe. And a Reign has been called the Golden Age, which Nice, interestingly enough is the name of the sequel. Speaker 2 00:56:38 Yes, I saw that, that there is a sequel also with Cape Plan Chat. Yep. It is interesting because she never had a kill. I wonder how they handled succession or maybe she was like, this not my problem. Speaker 0 00:56:48 That is, I was wondering that. And uh, a quick Google will tell us who she was succeeded by. Uh, James the first who was, uh, Al was a son of Mary, Queen of Scott's. Speaker 2 00:57:01 Ah, she got a revenge. Speaker 0 00:57:04 So Mary, Queen of Scott's, who is Mary Queen of Scott's. Anyways, Speaker 2 00:57:09 Good question. Well, you said she was the daughter of Speaker 0 00:57:14 Some other dude. No, no, that was Mary the first Speaker 2 00:57:18 Oh God. Speaker 0 00:57:20 So Mary, the Mary Queen of Scott's was the s uh, child of James the fifth of Scotland, who was a son of King James. The, uh, Oh, okay. So that's where the royal line, Okay. Yeah. Uh, that, that going that far. Right. I'm like, I don't exactly know how, but apparently they're related. Speaker 2 00:57:41 All right. So that, for the movie now it's time for a fact versus fiction. I have quite a bit. So buckle up. So I don't wanna say the entire movie is bullshit. Speaker 0 00:57:52 It is highly fictionalized. Yes. Speaker 2 00:57:54 Okay. So my source is the historical novel, which had a whole thing about this movie. All right, here we go. Norfolk was a Protestant. Speaker 0 00:58:03 Oh. Speaker 2 00:58:04 He was only involved in the Catholic conspiracy to get power. Speaker 0 00:58:07 Ah, did not know. I mean, that's not, Well it is kind of implied here. Yes. Yeah. That he's Catholic. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:58:15 Uh, William Cecil, Richard Abar was, he was around Elizabeth's age. Speaker 0 00:58:21 Ah, okay. Speaker 2 00:58:22 So he wasn't this old dude. Speaker 0 00:58:23 No. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:58:24 And he didn't need to be with her clandestinely. He was made Secretary of State. Speaker 0 00:58:29 Huh. Speaker 2 00:58:30 And then he didn't have a mandatory retirement. He was created to be Lord Burg and then became a treasurer later. Speaker 0 00:58:39 Oh, okay. Speaker 2 00:58:41 Uh, Walsingham did go into exile. He was Protestant though. The movie implies that he's like, doesn't believe in God. Speaker 0 00:58:49 Oh yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:58:50 So he did dissolve numerous plots against the queen, including one that saw the execution, nor folk. He was not her personal Gotti bodyguard. And he certainly didn't murder Mary of while having sex with her as the movie says she died of mm-hmm. <affirmative> Henry, the Duke of and Joe Illness. Speaker 0 00:59:08 Right. Speaker 2 00:59:09 Was never offered as a candidate for Elizabeth's hand. He never came to England. He didn't even like her. She was possibly bisexual though. Speaker 0 00:59:18 Oh, okay. Speaker 2 00:59:19 I don't know. The whole cross just thing they didn't mention there were numerous plots against Elizabeth throughout her reign. Yeah. There was a Bull X communication calling for Elizabeth's removal. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. But the light, what they call a night of the long knives style purge, like the big purge at the end. Yeah. It just, it just didn't happen. Speaker 0 00:59:39 Oh, Speaker 2 00:59:40 <laugh>, The oral Sussex was not involved in any plot. Bishop Gardner died before Elizabeth came to the throne. The Spanish ambassador died on the way back to Spain, probably cuz of the plague. It's controversial whether Robert Dudley and Elizabeth were lovers. Okay. The movie obviously says they were, but it's not clear. Hmm. Uh, the rumors themselves were damaging. They almost cost Elizabeth, her throne. Had she actually conducted a public affair, it would've been socio. There you go. Dudley's marriage was not a secret as portrayed. People would've known about it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And for him being a trader who narrowly escapes death, Dudley remained faithful and loyal to the Queen, though his affairs and later marriage to her lady and waiting. Oh, another one. Oh, okay. And lettuce knowles or lettuces not spelled like the food <laugh>, it did damage their relationship. They reconciled, They were close until his death. I don't know about the whole last words thing. It didn't weigh in on that. And then finally the whole thing about shaving her head and putting on white makeup. Yeah. The makeup was used to disguise scarring after she got smallpox four years into rain. Speaker 0 01:00:50 Which they don't talk about. Speaker 2 01:00:52 No, they don't. And then the same illness thinned her hair and that's why she started wearing wigs. Okay. And then the golden Age, again, this is all the same source was not something that came out until 30 years into Reign with the defeat. The Spanish armada. Speaker 0 01:01:06 The part of the, of Har Reign that the Spy museum covers is that whole thing with the Spanish Armada. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I thought this covered that. I wasn't actually Sure. So maybe we need to come, we'll come back to this at some point. Speaker 2 01:01:19 Come back for the sequel. Speaker 0 01:01:21 For the sequel. Because I think that may cover more of the spy action that I was looking for in this. I mean, there was, don't get me wrong, there was spy, there were spy elements here. Speaker 2 01:01:31 Oh, Speaker 0 01:01:31 Sure. And is most like her spy master basically. Speaker 2 01:01:35 Yeah. They should call the sequel. Elizabeth ii Don't have Me, if I reuse that joke. Speaker 0 01:01:42 Uh, two things I wanted to touch on as the act of uniformity. What, what she, you know, that whole big speech she made to the priest and sort of explain what it is. So apparently what it basically was is to regularize prayer, divine worship, and the administration of sacraments in the English Church. This is from Wikipedia. So with that, she basically creates the Church of England Speaker 2 01:02:07 Mm-hmm. Speaker 0 01:02:08 <affirmative> as well as, you know, setting the actual prayers that are used within the Anglican church. Um, and if you live in the States, it's the, a lot of the same things that are used in the Episcopal Church, which I was raised in. So their film. So when she says, she talks about how we need to have a book of, you know, common prayers like Oh, so you mean the book of common prayer that we used Speaker 2 01:02:28 <laugh>. Wow. Speaker 0 01:02:30 It was like, it was like that one episode of Star Trek Enterprise, where at the end of it archer's like there needs to be some sort of directive that is prime that tells us what, that we're not supposed to do this thing. I was like, Oh, so a prime directive. You might say Speaker 2 01:02:46 <laugh>, we need a iteration of planets that's United Speaker 0 01:02:50 <laugh>. Yeah. Anyways, so that's, that is what the active uniformity was and it yeah, it created the Book of common prayer and mm-hmm. Yeah. So Speaker 2 01:02:59 That's interesting. Cause I'd always thought that it was Henry vii who created the Church of England specifically mean he Speaker 0 01:03:04 Does. Right. But he, but also just doesn't really create enough of it to sort of keep, get, get movement. You know, they're Protestants but it doesn't really define it as much as this does. Right. So the one thing that I would just briefly touch on it, because apparently it is more of a part of the sequel, but John Ballard was, they sort of conflate him in this plot. Like they conflated a lot of different plots. But John Ballard is played by Daniel Craig was actually a part of a different plot to assassinate Queen Elizabeth, which is known as the Bebbington Plots. Speaker 2 01:03:42 Okay. Speaker 0 01:03:43 And I will not go. And that involved Mary Queen of Scotts and I will not go into further detail cuz that'll all be covered in the sequel, which I do actually wanna cover at some point since apparently. But I think, you know, it'd be hard to do one without the other, I think. But yeah, so the fact, yeah, that, uh, Ballard was not involved with this actual plot to kill Elizabeth, but rather a different one. And apparently they have to create another character to replace John Ballard in the sequel because he was already dead Speaker 2 01:04:16 <laugh>. See, then you had to figure it out. Well, more where he came from. Speaker 0 01:04:20 Anyway, so that's what I got for Spy Effect. For spy fiction. Speaker 2 01:04:23 All right. So now it is time for our favorite quotes. I have a few, I can go first. Speaker 0 01:04:28 Sure. Speaker 2 01:04:29 So Nor Focal course is the best character. I like where he says she's still child and yet you piss yourselves Speaker 0 01:04:35 <laugh>. Speaker 2 01:04:35 And then later he says, Today I shall watch the fall of that heretic girl. It's like, who you call a heretic buddy. Uh, there's a part where someone does the hokey joke about men are from Morris, Women are from Venus. And he says, No men can unlock her secrets Speaker 0 01:04:50 Unless you have a big key. Speaker 2 01:04:52 Oh yeah. I wasn't gonna mention that part. Speaker 0 01:04:54 <laugh>. Yeah, that was the, Oh, was that Duke of, and who says the whole thing about the big key? Yep. Speaker 2 01:05:01 Right. And then a couple of quotes from Liz that I thought were cool. My patience is not infinite Speaker 0 01:05:06 <laugh>. Speaker 2 01:05:07 And then finally let him sign it and let it all be done. I like that. Speaker 0 01:05:11 So I've got a few from, well this is from Elizabeth who says, Well, like when she's in prison, she says, I ask why must, we must tear ourselves apart for this small question of religion like <laugh>. Um, yeah. So a lot of people not that small Speaker 2 01:05:29 <laugh>. Why can't we all just get along? Si Elizabeth, Speaker 0 01:05:32 Uh, from Sir William, the marriage of a Queen is born of politics, not of childish passion. Speaker 2 01:05:38 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, Speaker 0 01:05:40 I don't remember who says this, but someone says this is common sense, which is the most English virtue Speaker 2 01:05:46 <laugh>. Speaker 0 01:05:47 I will have one mistress here and no Master Speaker 2 01:05:51 <laugh> Speaker 0 01:05:51 And I, I like from Washington at the near the end he says, You were Norfolk the Dead have no titles. Speaker 2 01:05:58 Nice. I forgot that one. That's a good line. Speaker 0 01:06:00 That's good. I like that was like, ooh, I really like that one. Speaker 2 01:06:04 <laugh>. Speaker 0 01:06:05 Alrighty. Should we get to our reviews? Speaker 2 01:06:07 Yeah. So our ratings are on a scale of one to 10 martinis, one being, uh, what's a really bad one? Avengers 1997 and 10 being even better than No Time To Die. How would we rate Elizabeth? I feel like I usually go first. Why don't you go first Speaker 0 01:06:22 This time? Sure. So I think this is one of those movies like, um, your favorite spy movie, um, Uhhuh, whose name I actually just forgot. Michael. Uh, Michael Clayton. Speaker 2 01:06:34 Michael Clayton. Michael Collins. Speaker 0 01:06:36 Yeah. Yeah. Where it might really be a good movie, but it's not a great spy movie. Like there is a lot of good spy action in it. Like, I like the plotting, I like the Godfather two style, you know, all of it happening. I kind of wish there was more of it. And seemingly the fact that they'll deal with the Babington plot and the Spanish or modern, the sequel maybe in what's more there? So I'm gonna give this, uh, I'm gonna give it a four outta 10. Speaker 2 01:07:07 Wow. Speaker 0 01:07:08 That's like, I liked it as a, if I was judging this as a movie movie mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I would give it much higher and I was entertained by it. But it'ss not the spy action was light. Speaker 2 01:07:20 That's true. <laugh>. Right. I tend to judge the movies more overall, but this is like the part of Fiddler on the Roof where he's like on the one hand. On the other hand, on the one hand the positive sides are, it's different as you know, I like him when things are different. This, it's very different. Right. Yep. Okay. Different timelines. Christopher Eton's great. Daniel Craig is great on the negative side though it is rather boring and almost none that it's true Speaker 0 01:07:51 <laugh>. Right? That's fair. Yes. Right. Speaker 2 01:07:54 So I'm gonna average it out. I'm gonna give it a five out of 10. Right, Speaker 0 01:07:58 Right. Wow. This is the rare one where you gave it a higher, like, and this is not, this is again like, you know, we are judging it as a spy movie. Like I said, I think if I'm just, I wanna put it out there. If I was rating this as just a movie solid. Yeah, Speaker 2 01:08:13 Well like in Argo. Yeah. The fact that it's not true really kind of damaged it for me. I afraid to reestablish my rep. I've been too nice lately Speaker 0 01:08:26 <laugh>, Speaker 2 01:08:27 But it's fine. I'm gonna leave it where it is. Speaker 0 01:08:29 Right, right. Speaker 2 01:08:32 Anything else or are we done here? Speaker 0 01:08:35 Oh it, well I will say that it being, you know, one of the first appearances of Daniel Craigen, like a major motion picture. I almost wanna bump it up just a tiny bit. Maybe, maybe a four. That's Speaker 2 01:08:47 Not a good reason. Speaker 0 01:08:48 I know it's not, but he does look damn cool walking down that hallway. You gotta admit that Speaker 2 01:08:55 It's your reading. You can do whatever you want. Speaker 0 01:08:57 Now I'm keeping it with a four, but it was, I mean I, I mean I won't say that I didn't enjoy it though. Like it was, it was enjoyable for me. Like, I guess cuz I like as you, as you said, you know that all of this, uh, courtly drama is Speaker 2 01:09:14 Still Speaker 0 01:09:15 No topical Speaker 2 01:09:17 <laugh>. Oh, okay. Speaker 0 01:09:19 Yeah. So I enjoyed it and, uh, we'll be thinking about this probably as awaiting the sequel, which I do wanna cover maybe sooner rather later. We'll see. Speaker 2 01:09:29 All right. Well until then, thank you all for joining us. You can find us on social media at this scifi, guys on Facebook, Twitter, on Instagram. Speaker 0 01:09:37 Wow. We'll see how long Twitter lasts. Speaker 2 01:09:40 Right? As long as Twitter's still around. Speaker 0 01:09:42 Right. Speaker 2 01:09:44 But until next time, I'm Zach Speaker 0 01:09:46 And I'm Christian. Speaker 2 01:09:47 And we are the guys signing off. Speaker 3 01:10:22 Thank you for listening to the Spotify guys. If you enjoyed our podcast, please be sure to give us a five star rating on iTunes. The theme song from this podcast is Mistake The Getaway by Kevin Mcle from incom tech.com, licensed under creative comments by attribution 3.0. Films, books and television shows reviewed by our podcast are the intellectual property of their respective copyright holders. And no one Fri is intended.