"Dhurandhar" guest starring Guru

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Courage, fuel, and revenge. We are the Spy Fi guys, and this is Durondar. [00:00:09] Speaker B: Welcome to the Spy Fi guys. [00:00:12] Speaker A: So I apologize to the universe for that. [00:00:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:15] Speaker C: Wow. [00:00:16] Speaker A: Justice for Denisim. [00:00:18] Speaker C: Is it though? [00:00:20] Speaker A: I laughed and then I hated myself for laughing. Hello, and welcome back to the Spy Fi guys, where we cover spy fact, spy fiction, and everything in between. I'm Zach. [00:00:36] Speaker B: And I'm Guru. [00:00:37] Speaker A: Ah. Who are you and what have you done with Christian? [00:00:40] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I'm Zach's wife. [00:00:44] Speaker A: So Christian couldn't make it this time around. And this is my wife, Guru, who's joining us for the first time officially. She's made many comments on movies that we've covered in the past, but because she was the one who introduced this movie to me, she's really passionate about it and she knows a lot about the subject. I thought that we would bring her on. So welcome aboard. [00:01:05] Speaker B: Thank you, Zach. Thank you, Christine. [00:01:07] Speaker A: So before we get started, is there anything you want to tell us about. I don't know, about yourself? Is that too big of a question? Or maybe we should just stick with the movie. [00:01:15] Speaker B: A little bit about myself. I grew up in India, studied in India, worked in India before I came to the US So I know bits and pieces of different events that have happened over time. And I remember watching news through news or through radio about the events that [00:01:39] Speaker A: happen in the movie. Yeah. [00:01:41] Speaker B: And this movie bought connected all the dots for me. [00:01:46] Speaker A: So what brought this movie to your attention that you and I ended up watching it a few months ago. [00:01:52] Speaker B: Yes. So basically, when I first heard of the title, I didn't know what to expect. And I wasn't paying it any attention at all until I heard it was banned in Pakistan. [00:02:05] Speaker A: That's right. And when you told me that, I was like, well, now I gotta watch it. What's so controversial about it? Because I figured, you know, India and Pakistan, as most people are probably aware, don't exactly get along. Surely there must have been a lot of movies, and we've even seen a couple where the Pakistanis are the bad guys. So what made this one different to the point where they had to ban it? [00:02:28] Speaker B: That's exactly what I was curious about and got me to watch the movie. And that's where I pushed you hard. [00:02:35] Speaker A: Right. So the movie's currently on Netflix for those who are curious about it at the time of recording. And you and I, a few months ago, sat down to watch it at 8pm and it was three and a half hours long. So we're like, we're only gonna Watch the first half, but it was so intense, we stayed up pretty late at night to finish it. [00:02:54] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. The movie was so gripping that we couldn't leave it halfway. [00:02:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And then of course, we watched it again recently for the purpose of this recording. [00:03:03] Speaker B: That's right. [00:03:04] Speaker A: Anything else you want to say about it before we get started? There's also a sequel which we will not be talking about in this episode, but maybe later. [00:03:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Plot synopsis. [00:03:19] Speaker A: Okay, so with that in mind, we're going to jump into our poetry synopses. As always, I've come up with some poetry synopses. So here is the haiku for violence and music. Almost everyone sucks here. Long way to the top. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Wow. [00:03:39] Speaker A: I feel like that mostly covers the movie. [00:03:41] Speaker B: That's right. That is right. [00:03:43] Speaker A: Thank you. Oh, I forgot to mention, the spoilers began as well. So if you haven't seen the movie yet and you're curious, there's some shocking turns of events. But here is the limerick now. Also for Drawdar Hamza's a one man army. He's going to be king of Lyawari. With the help of a mooch and a man named Baluch. Those terrorists are going to be sorry. What do you think, girl? [00:04:08] Speaker B: That's a wonderful summary and well put. [00:04:11] Speaker A: Thank you. But then, just in case you need a little bit more summary, here is the official IMDb plot summary from IMDb. A mysterious traveler slips into the heart of Karachi's underbelly and rises through its ranks with lethal precision, only to tear the notorious ISI underworld nexus apart from within. I'm not sure that's entirely true. Yeah, tears the underworld nexus apart from within. That's kind of more in a different movie. [00:04:39] Speaker B: Maybe Theirs is kind of an overstatement. He does a pretty decent damage, like very substantial damage, I would say. [00:04:49] Speaker A: All right, we will discuss. So the movie begins with a Bhagavad Gita quote, which I did not have time to write down. I don't know if you did. It was something about doing your duty. Or maybe that's just what the Bhagavad Gita in general is about. And it says, chapter one is the price of peace. And it begins with two terrorist attacks on India. Okay. The first is a hijacking of an airplane, which really sets the tone of the movie really well. And the negotiation happens. We see extreme violence right away. So the movie is quite violent. It's not the most violent movie I've [00:05:28] Speaker B: ever seen, but some of the scenes are extremely gory. [00:05:31] Speaker A: Yeah, but it begins right away because there's a brief shot of the terrorist killing a passenger. It's very brief. It's only a couple of seconds, but it's quite bloody. [00:05:40] Speaker B: So the event we are referring to is the Kandahar flight hijack, which happens in 1999. [00:05:47] Speaker A: Right. And you watched a whole series about it, didn't you? [00:05:50] Speaker B: That's right. So there's another show in Netflix called IC814, the flight number, and it's a three, if I remember it right, three episode show which covers in detail of what happened in the hijack. [00:06:06] Speaker A: Because it's quite a story beyond just what we see in this movie. So something interesting is it's in the middle of what looks like nothing. Correct. It's an airstrip and there's nothing nearby except for some mountains. And I think that's partially why the Indian government didn't want to storm the plane, because they remember, they talk about why don't we just go in and try to rescue them with force instead of negotiating. [00:06:31] Speaker B: That's a good point. I don't know the accuracy of the setting in which the flight was landed, but for what I. For what? I know we can fact check, but the flight actually lands in the Kandahar airport. So it's actually an airport. I don't know why the set did not look like an airport. [00:06:56] Speaker A: I think it was just to establish that it's in Afghanistan. See, that's interesting, because if it really was in the middle of nowhere, then it's like tactical. Right. Because you can't send an army. They'll see you coming a million miles away. Okay. And we're not going to get too much into this, but you and I had a discussion about the ethics of this part. [00:07:14] Speaker B: Wrong. Yes. A very ethical question. What is the right thing to do? Because the terrorists that are being asked to release are notorious and what kind of damage would they cause once they're released? [00:07:31] Speaker A: Right, but you don't know. [00:07:32] Speaker B: Yes. So at the moment of the events happening, it makes sense to rescue our own people, citizens. It's the duty of the government. [00:07:47] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. That was what I said. That was the point. By the way, also, they mention, I don't think they show it, but they mention in the movie that there's hostage families protesting outside of the PM's residence. [00:07:58] Speaker B: That is correct. [00:07:58] Speaker A: And that sounds very familiar if you know something about recent events in world history. So. But anyway, so ultimately they make the deal and the terrorists get released and there's a conversation about whether we should do this. Durandar plan to strike back against Pakistan. Do you have something to say about that? [00:08:18] Speaker B: Yeah. A quick fact to add. The demand from the hijackers would be actually asking for 36 to release 36 people. [00:08:28] Speaker A: However, [00:08:31] Speaker B: after much negotiation, they shortlist the list to three. And the three, one of them is, if I get the names right, Masood Azhar and two others. And they were part of. I don't know if we should do this reveal, but one of them is the planner of the 911 attack. [00:08:52] Speaker A: Yeah, you should, because that's not in the movie. I can't believe it wasn't in the movie. So one of them was involved in 911 and the other one is involved in the next terrorist attack, which. The first one, the hijacking, set the tone really well. But this is where I got gripped by the movie. 13 December 2001 India Parliamentary Attack. I remember when this happened. Not long after 911 either. And the movie does a really good job of depicting it because you get to meet this Indian policewoman who works as a security guard. There's a ram attack and she gets shot down. Not the most extreme violent death the movie has, not by a long shot. But because she's an innocent person, it grabs you much more. [00:09:37] Speaker B: Yep. One other thing to add about that particular scene or the event shown in the movie is they actually mix it with real footage. [00:09:50] Speaker A: Yes. [00:09:50] Speaker B: Alongside the movie, they're playing the real footage of what happened. [00:09:55] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. So the only thing after that that's really viable, there's a lot of shooting back and forth, like an action movie. And one of the terrorists who was released on the airplane blows himself up. He's a suicide bomber. Yeah. You get some more violence there. You see like chunks of like meat fly everywhere. Oh my goodness. And the thing is, they say a lot of people get killed, but we don't actually see them. Except for the woman security guard that I mentioned before. [00:10:20] Speaker B: Yes. But I don't know the number of casualties on the security side, but they definitely got all the terrorists. [00:10:30] Speaker A: Well, so like, if every attack has an iconic image associated with it, the one I think of with the Parliament attack is the terrorist behind that wall. Do you know what I'm talking about? Where it's a terrorist with a gun and he's hiding behind a wall and he's shooting at someone you can't see because it's off camera. I guess I'm a little disappointed. Not that I really expect the movie to show, but I want to know, like, so what happened? Like Was it just a big gunfight and a bunch of people shot each other or so like what happened? I don't know. Do you know? [00:11:00] Speaker B: I do not know. But how I interpreted the scene was there were security posts around the parliament building who were trying to stop these attackers had they not stopped. So the shooting is happening from the side of the building where the attackers were present and the security who's around the building protecting the building. [00:11:25] Speaker A: I see. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Had the. Had the security not stopped them, the possibility is the attackers would have gone inside the parliament and there is an active session going on. [00:11:35] Speaker A: Yeah. So it could have been leaving. Yeah. [00:11:38] Speaker B: Yes. [00:11:38] Speaker A: So yeah, it could have been way worse. So all the mps are safe. But this can finally convinces the Indian government to take action about this terrorist issue. And there's a throwaway line, by the way, where they say the US is going to back Pakistan. We can't look to them for help. And by the way, when they say that in the movie, Guru gave me a look. Well, so as people may recall, this was the war on terrorism because it Wasn't long after 9 11, Pakistan was the US's foothold into Afghanistan and. [00:12:13] Speaker B: Oh, was it around the same time? [00:12:15] Speaker A: Well yeah, I mean this is December 2001 and I don't know if we had invaded Afghanistan yet, but it was definitely coming. So the plan is to do Operation Durandar, which means. Do you know what it means? [00:12:28] Speaker B: Yes. Sending. Sending people into Pakistan and establishing them in their core operations of their underworld and get the first hand information of what they're planning and what is happening also. [00:12:50] Speaker A: Stop. That's great. Thank you. But I mean, what's the word dhrundar mean? [00:12:54] Speaker B: Oh, Durandar means like. Like a winner or a one who sets. I have to leave up. [00:13:02] Speaker A: I'm sorry, like champion or something like that. [00:13:04] Speaker B: Correct. [00:13:05] Speaker A: Okay, very good. [00:13:06] Speaker B: So it says, it means an expert leader, master of craft. [00:13:12] Speaker A: I see. [00:13:13] Speaker B: Who's highly skilled and capable. [00:13:14] Speaker A: Okay, and what language is that? [00:13:16] Speaker B: Hindi. [00:13:16] Speaker A: It is Hindi. Okay, so then we begin chapter two. Stranger in the land of shadows. A time jump. 2004. Afghanistan. It says. Inspired by incredible true events. [00:13:28] Speaker B: That's right. [00:13:28] Speaker A: Any thoughts on that? [00:13:30] Speaker B: Nope. When I was actually watching the movie up until like the plot of them planning to send Spice over, I was thinking, how will they make the border cross? [00:13:44] Speaker A: Yeah, how is it gonna work? [00:13:45] Speaker B: Yeah. But that just revealed into the next scene of entering Pakistan through Afghanistan and not through India. [00:13:52] Speaker A: Yeah, it's an insertion. So we meet our main character, Hamza. He's on an Indian helicopter that flies to Afghanistan and then he crosses the border. And the music in this part is great. And I was more gripped because I was like, okay, we've established the stakes. We've established the bad guy. Now let's go kick some ass. Which is not what ended up happening right away. It happened later. You get great scenery, you get great music. And he ends up in Lyawari, Karachi, Pakistan. Had you ever heard of Lyari before this movie? [00:14:25] Speaker B: I haven't. Even if I heard, it would have been a casual word. I didn't know what it meant or what it was known for. [00:14:34] Speaker A: Well, apparently Lyari is the key to Karachi and Karachi is the key to Pakistan. So it's the most important suburb that none of us have ever heard of before this. So he stops by to meet a juice seller in a juice store, and he comes back at night and he gets involved in a fight with some local thugs. Okay. Now what's interesting is the juice seller turns out to be his contact, but he does nothing to help him. Why do you think that's the case? [00:15:04] Speaker B: I think he's still waiting to validate the authenticity of this person. Yeah. [00:15:10] Speaker A: Okay. He just isn't sure if he's his fellow Indian spy. [00:15:14] Speaker B: So if you remember the scene where they actually have a exchange of conversation where the key word for hamza was the. The phrase that he keeps yelling like. [00:15:27] Speaker A: Yeah, the code phrase. [00:15:28] Speaker B: The code phrase he keeps yelling. And so he knows he's at the right spot and he. He buys some juice there and they have like a one word or two word conversation. [00:15:39] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:39] Speaker B: And the Alam juice guy, his name is Alim. So Alim. He gets Alim's attention. However, he still is observing before he takes him under his wing. [00:15:52] Speaker A: Okay, that's interesting. I also thought he might blow his cover if he gets involved right away. Yeah, it might seem suspicious. So we should also say our main character, Hamza, something interesting about him is he has a very distinctive visual look. Like, to me, it's right up there with James Bond in a tuxedo. So he's a huge guy with huge arms and he has long hair and a huge beard. So as soon as you look at him, you know it's Durandar. And you know, he's our main character. So I don't know if that was an intentional choice on the part of the filmmakers. [00:16:25] Speaker B: I think it is. I think yes. I have to say there could be two reasons. One, he's the protagonist and the hero playing the hero role. So he looks fit, well made, body, able to fight, and the Second part is he also has to fit into Pakistan as a Pakistani, for which he will need a beard or whatever look that he has to incorporate for him to like look as a local. [00:17:04] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:17:05] Speaker B: So there are two parts to it. One, still maintaining the visual effects of the hero while also trying to fit into the. [00:17:14] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So I also think so long time people have been listening to spy fying eyes or are familiar with spy stories, know that spy spies are supposed to blend in most of the time. So I actually think the juice seller guy whose name Assam. You said Alim, he actually is more the way spies typically look because he looks like a face in the crowd. But for this job where Hamza, it's revealed later, is going to become a gangster king, he should look like a gangster king, right? Yeah. Alam does not look like a gangster king. [00:17:50] Speaker B: And he looks exactly like a juice owner. Center owner. [00:17:56] Speaker A: Correct. Exactly. So he survives the fight and they meet up with each other, and he spends a year working at the juice store because it jumps forward to a year. [00:18:06] Speaker B: He keeps thinking about his family. And Alim and Hamza get tea together and they talk about [00:18:17] Speaker A: what's going on here in Lyari. [00:18:19] Speaker B: Yes. So Alam says to Hamza that he has to maintain that vigilance and patience. [00:18:31] Speaker A: Well, he also explains. Here's the deal. Like we said before, Lyari runs Karachi and Karachi runs Pakistan. So in order for this operation to work, they have to take over Lyari. And that's fortunate because there's mafia style organized crime gangs that basically run Lyari. And there's two major ones, one of whom is run by Raymond Denoit. Is that his name? [00:18:59] Speaker B: Dasknight is what they said is the name. But he's from a baloch community. So instead of calling him Rahman decayed, they show like a rename. Yeah. Where they called it, called him Raymond [00:19:14] Speaker A: the K. So it shows a title on the screen and then the last name flips over like a. Like a flip and it says Raymond Baluch. Which is great. By the way, I forgot this. His name is spelled R E H M A N. In my memory it was Raymond. Like everybody loves Raymond. Like the American name. Oh, R A Y M O N [00:19:33] Speaker B: D. But it's not. [00:19:34] Speaker A: So anyway, so he runs run of the gangs and then another one is run by someone else whose name I did not get. [00:19:41] Speaker B: Patan gang. [00:19:42] Speaker A: Yeah. So they're the two rivals. And Raymond is a bad dude. There's a rumor that he killed his own mother. [00:19:49] Speaker B: That's right. [00:19:50] Speaker A: And which jumps us into Chapter three, the Bastard King of Lyari I, Raymond Baluch. So we get a visit. Oh, his name is Babu Duquet. Because they're like. Are they brothers? They're related to each other, right? Yes. [00:20:02] Speaker B: So Babu Ducit is Raymond's dad. [00:20:07] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. It's his dad. [00:20:08] Speaker B: Yes. So Raymond's mom has Rehman through Babu Daket, who's an affair. And the day Raymond learns that he was born as a. As an. [00:20:27] Speaker A: To use Game of Thrones terminology, bastard [00:20:29] Speaker B: son, he actually kills his mom, but not his son. [00:20:33] Speaker A: Because he's still a son. [00:20:36] Speaker B: Not his father? [00:20:37] Speaker A: Well, no, the father. The father kills Raymond's mom. [00:20:41] Speaker B: No, the son kills. [00:20:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Didn't I just say that? Yeah, that's true. So, yeah, so he's a bad dude. There's another good part with great music here. And this part is also very interesting. He meets another Indian spy who is in Babu's gang. [00:20:57] Speaker B: That's right. [00:20:58] Speaker A: So the thing about this movie, from this point on, it becomes basically a cry of a movie. It's not really a spy movie, per se. It's more about a criminal trying to climb up in the ranks of criminals. Would you agree that that's true? [00:21:11] Speaker B: No. [00:21:12] Speaker A: You wouldn't agree? [00:21:13] Speaker B: No. It's still a spy movie, I would say, because now both the gangster groups are infiltrated by Indian spies. [00:21:25] Speaker A: Right. [00:21:25] Speaker B: And the Indian spies have a connection going on, passing information from one side to the other. [00:21:30] Speaker A: But is this the only part where they do that or do they do it again? [00:21:34] Speaker B: I think they keep doing it. [00:21:35] Speaker A: Okay, I didn't remember that part. [00:21:37] Speaker B: Now we have three spies. [00:21:38] Speaker A: Yes. [00:21:39] Speaker B: The juice guy and Hamza himself. And Rizwan, who is on Patan gang. [00:21:50] Speaker A: On Babu's gang. So Babu tells Hamza that they're gonna do this attack on Raymond's son at a wedding. So here is Hamza's chance to get in good with him. I thought this part was great. It's like we're gonna set up Hamza to do something heroic, and that's how he'll get Raymond to trust him and to get him to join the gang, because he's not as part of the gang yet. But what I'm saying is it would have been interesting. And I know it's based on a true story, so they can't change it. And. But if he was climbing up the ranks of being an organized criminal, using spy stuff, he does it a little bit. But, like, I thought it would be the whole movie, if that makes sense. Okay, okay. So the plan is protect. I called him Beluch Jr. Raymond son. [00:22:37] Speaker B: So some of the songs that are played as background music throughout the movie were actually songs from the 90s 90s, which were more popular and more catchy, more party like. And it was very interesting to hear all those famous songs as background music. [00:23:02] Speaker A: Well, it's like James Gunn doing Guardians of the Galaxy where he. If it's old music, the old and bad stuff gets forgotten and the old and good stuff stays. So that's what people remember. So there's wedding music, there's people making a ring, like throwing money around. And you said that's not uncommon in that part of the world. Yes, but you don't stop and pick up the money. [00:23:23] Speaker C: Right? [00:23:23] Speaker A: That's rude. You don't do that. [00:23:24] Speaker B: No. So everyone is enjoying enough that the focus is not on money. But if there is someone who is not there to attend the event, there might be some other people who were spend the money and just there for money. [00:23:40] Speaker A: So the Jew sellers are there, including Hamza. He's acting as a waiter. And I was amused. They're handing out juice because it's a dry wedding. Right? [00:23:48] Speaker B: Because it's a Muslim country, to be honest. Now I'm not able to recollect whether it was a wedding or it was [00:23:53] Speaker A: just a. I thought it was a wedding at this party. [00:23:56] Speaker B: Okay. [00:23:57] Speaker A: It might have been a birthday party, I don't know. My note is wedding music, dry wedding, wedding this, wedding that. I don't know. Raymond Jr. Is there. His bodyguards are these huge rifles. And a gunfight occurs when three attackers show up. So there's slow motion. It's actually. You ever seen John Wick? Do you know the John Wick movies? So it's. That's what it reminded me of. [00:24:22] Speaker B: A few points to add. Both Raymond's sons come to the event. The elder one is the target. The younger one also comes along with him. He's a little playful and running around. [00:24:35] Speaker A: Correct. [00:24:36] Speaker B: Naim, the elder son, hands off the gift, which is the couple or the friends? And as they were about to leave. [00:24:49] Speaker A: Okay. But then. And then the. Then the attack happens. So there's a part where they play the pop music during the action scene. That's what reminded me of John Wick or Gar, Guardians of the Galaxy. There's a point where Hamza, like, floats his hair and his hair goes in slow motion. I also had a note. You can't tell the attackers from the defenders. It's hard to know who's on whose side. [00:25:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's bodyguards and Hamza against the three attackers. [00:25:18] Speaker A: Correct. From the other gang. So the attackers get away. The older kid is dead. But Hamza worked really hard to save his life. Kind of over the top, actually, if you ask me. [00:25:28] Speaker B: I agree. [00:25:28] Speaker A: So they take him to the hospital, which looks like Arkham Asylum from the Batman series. And we meet for the first time, Raymond Beluch. Now, you know this actor already. You want to tell us a little bit about the actor? [00:25:40] Speaker B: Yeah, he was a famous actor in. In the 90s and have. And has done movies as in romantic roles, even as serious roles. But having to see him back on the screen felt really good. [00:25:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And he's scary. He's like. He's very intense in this role. [00:26:04] Speaker B: He's a very good actor. [00:26:07] Speaker A: You can see why he picked him. So Hamza provides helpful comments. Of course, Raymond the sad. I mean, his son is dead. And then we meet the guy who I called the mooch, called Jamil Jamel. [00:26:19] Speaker B: I don't say Jama Jamil Jamil Jamal. [00:26:23] Speaker A: Yeah. So he's a local politician who I think him and Raymond work together to run Lyari. Basically, he's like the official mayor, you might call him. And then Raymond is the unofficial one. So he's over the top. So sad. But he wants no revenge on the gang because elections are coming up. [00:26:41] Speaker B: That's right. [00:26:42] Speaker A: And it'll cause problems for him. We get a part with the funeral and Hamza is in. He joins the crew. [00:26:50] Speaker B: Yes. So there's a. There's a subtle scene there where there's a conversation between Rehman and this is like his sidekick. [00:26:58] Speaker A: Oh, Hamza. Okay. [00:26:59] Speaker B: Rayman and Hamza, where Hamza says. Rayman says, I'll pay you for trying to save my son. And he says, I'm not here for money. [00:27:12] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:27:12] Speaker B: I'm here for our community and I'm in service. I appreciate everything that you have done to the Baloch community. And. And I'd like to be part of it. He does not say he wants to be part of it, but he. [00:27:26] Speaker A: He, like, hints at it. Look at that humble Hamza. What a guy. He always knows exactly what to say to win these guys trust. How. How does he do? What? What a saint. Oh, my God. He risked his life to save the sun. What a guy. How could you not trust? [00:27:42] Speaker B: I would say that's the smoothest entry you can ever do. [00:27:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:47] Speaker B: Is find the weakest moment and make your entry. [00:27:50] Speaker A: Well, we find out later that Raymond Baluch is very into his Beluch community. So it Makes sense that that's his weakness. Do you think Hamza knew that before he even went in? [00:28:00] Speaker B: Yes. [00:28:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:00] Speaker B: Because the gangs themselves have. Were named or the gang leaders represented the community they stand for. That's where Rehman ran the Baluch community and Babu Decade ran the Pathaan community. [00:28:17] Speaker A: I see. Nice. Okay. So he gets in. He's introduced to the business. They sell artificial or, like, fake guns that I guess still work. He sees the throne that Raymond sits on and their discussion. Raymond goes to the gang and he says, should we get revenge on. On Baboo? I always want to say Babu freak, who's a guy from Star wars, but I mean. Or Freck. Babu. Freck. So the gang says, no, don't do it. But Hamza says, yes. Okay. And then use this opportunity to take over. [00:28:53] Speaker B: Yeah. It all starts with the evening news covering. [00:28:57] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that's right. [00:28:59] Speaker B: Why did Raymond not take any revenge? And that's where the thought is triggered from. And the complete gang says no, except for Hamza, who says, let's take this opportunity. [00:29:14] Speaker A: And the anchor doesn't just report it. He kind of. I don't think he means to, but he, like, taunts Raymond. He's like, what, did your balls fall off or something? He says something like, you know, is he scared or. No, he's like. Jamil has him, like, by the leash. [00:29:30] Speaker B: I think, if I remember it right, they connect it back to elections and say that is it because of elections that Raymond is holding back? [00:29:37] Speaker A: That's exactly the reason. [00:29:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:39] Speaker A: So we get a montage of violence next, which is this is where the movie really makes it clear this is a violent movie. And don't hang around if that's. Which we did not know when we started watching it, or at least I didn't know that it was a violent movie. Yeah. So we have gangsters going up against other gangsters. That's what I mean by almost everyone sucks here. [00:30:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:03] Speaker A: Do you want to talk about some of the kills [00:30:07] Speaker B: before we jump into the kills? Now the Rayman gang, Baloch gang, is attacking the Patan gang and taking this opportunity to kill the core of. [00:30:21] Speaker A: Yeah. The second gang of Babu's gang. [00:30:24] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:25] Speaker A: So there's a. There's a part where they throw a guy into, like, a boiling, like, vat of something. That's. There's a part where a guy gets dragged through the streets, which was already bad, but then they throw him into a fence. He gets, like, impaled on the fence. So it's crazy. Crazy. There's all this violence which culminates with Raymond beating Babu, his own father, to death with like a heavy weight or something. And he says, I'm the king, I rule now. The baluch will not me. The baluch rule Liori. [00:30:55] Speaker B: Yeah. All those killings are like gory and brutal. [00:31:01] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Well, that's why, that's why I said it's like a gangster movie, like a crush crime. It feels more like a crime movie, certainly in this middle section. [00:31:09] Speaker B: So the crime always existed. [00:31:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:13] Speaker B: The part, the highlight of the movie is people being able to infiltrate into those existing gangs, that ongoing violence and turning it into their favor. [00:31:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I actually think this part, even though it's violent, was probably my favorite part of the movie movie because there's momentum, like you know where it's going, you know the stakes, you know what he's after, you know what's being accomplished. And let's rock and roll. So chapter four is bullets and roses. We jump forward to 2007 and Jamil has just won an election again. And there's a really. I don't know if this crowd was made out of cgi, but it looked incredible. Yeah, yeah. Raymond shows up to the rally and we meet his daughter for the first time. Yeah, yeah. Hamza helps her with the problem that she's having and she's kind of got her eye on him. And Raymond and Jamil meet with the Kalani brothers. [00:32:14] Speaker B: Kanani brothers. [00:32:15] Speaker A: Kanani brothers who are money counterfeiters. [00:32:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So the Kanani brothers are sponsors of the election. So they are funding the election and so they come to celebrate the success. As below, as Rehman Jameel are addressing the crowd about the win. And the scene slowly shifts towards. Do they actually go right away into the tour of the Kanani brothers or. [00:32:48] Speaker A: Well, I think they talk about how they're counterfeiting Indian plates. So this is the connection to the terrorism. Right. Do we forget why we were here in the first place? It wasn't to take over Lyari, it was to stop the terrorism. And there's also a discussion about whether Raymond should run himself for office because the crowd loves him so much. [00:33:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:06] Speaker A: So they tell him about this plan to counterfeit all this Indian money and sink their economy that way. [00:33:12] Speaker B: Yeah. As they're talking about the I, I think this is where they give a tour of the fake currency printing. [00:33:23] Speaker A: That's right. [00:33:24] Speaker B: Where it's like an industry level factory sized production line printing fake currency. [00:33:31] Speaker A: That's right. [00:33:33] Speaker B: And looking at the tour, Raymond then starts to think and express to join politics. [00:33:41] Speaker A: Right. [00:33:43] Speaker B: As A way to expand his circle with people like Kanani to cover food. [00:33:49] Speaker A: Yeah. So he's making his moves too. Yeah, he's making moves too. Of course, it's all the name of the Baluch community. Right. Not just for himself. [00:33:56] Speaker B: Yes. [00:33:56] Speaker A: What a saint. Another saint. So there's a part, I think Hamza even tells the audience. So this is not like an American movie where they hold your hand. But he does tell the audience that he wants Raymond to become more. More powerful, because then he gets more powerful too. [00:34:11] Speaker B: And he doesn't have to be behind Jameel. He can independently become his own political representation. [00:34:20] Speaker A: Yeah. That being said, he does make a move on Jamil through his daughter. So this is. Begins the romance subplot, which I remember you were not the biggest fan of the first time around. [00:34:29] Speaker B: That's right. I think I was so much sucked into the plot of the story, and I felt the romance was just a distraction from me. [00:34:41] Speaker A: Well, don't you think it also serves to, like, break up the story? Something a little different? It's not just gangster. There's. The movie has so much testosterone, so much masculinity, you know, it couldn't hurt to bring things up a little bit. So the way they meet is Hamza narks on this underground club of kids having. Just trying to have a good time, you know, in this repressive Islamic country. He just wanted to dance, and Hamza had to mess with that. And he sabotages. Do you remember her name? The daughter. Raymond's daughter. You don't remember her name? Yelena. So he sabotages Yelena's car so she has to get a ride home with him. But, you know, because he. He's clearly a guy with a very particular set of skills, and he can do anything. So she doesn't even seem very surprised. And while they're driving away, I just have a note. He looks so pleased with himself that he successfully pulled this off. [00:35:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Calls the police to raid, locks her car, picks her up. The whole chasing scene is, like, action packed. Ridiculous. [00:35:49] Speaker A: It's weird because there's serious action. But this part felt very dreamlike and silly. Like the cops are. It's like the song doing the song where it's like, we're gonna run around, let the cops chase us around. You ever heard that song? [00:36:02] Speaker B: No. [00:36:02] Speaker A: So, okay, don't worry about it. That's what everybody. So, like, the cops are chasing them for some reason. They don't try very hard. They eventually get away pretty easily. We get some romantic stuff, and the plate intel is Passed on. Upper leaders don't care. [00:36:19] Speaker B: Oh, my note says they were surprised or shocked to learn that there are plates stolen by Pakistan. And they tried to figure out who's the ministry who was involved as. Who were involved in the handing off the plates. So it's not. They are very concerned and they are trying to figure out who did it. And there is a conversation where they talk about. They also talk about. Hamza acts very curious and he asks, how does this money make into India? And they mention that it routes from Karachi through Qatar to Nepal to a state in India called Uttar Pradesh. And Uttar Pradesh is a. A very. There's a mafia that's strong in that state and the UP government is unable to control the mafia. [00:37:24] Speaker A: Oh, I see. So my note is not upper leaders don't care, it's UP Leaders don't care. That explains it. It's not that they don't care. They just can't do anything about it. [00:37:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:31] Speaker A: So then we meet our next big bad guy. As if this movie doesn't have enough bad guys. We get another one named Major Iqbal of the isi, or the Pakistan Internal Security Forces. They have a meeting between him and Raymond. Do you have something for that? Oh, the Kidani brothers there too. [00:37:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:52] Speaker A: And he explains that he needs guns from Raymond to carry out terrorist attacks, presumably on India. But the issue is that the ISI is oppressing and fighting and killing the Baluch in Baluchistan. [00:38:05] Speaker B: That's right. [00:38:06] Speaker A: Right. So Raymond doesn't like that. But ultimately he gives in. Which I think is interesting. [00:38:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:13] Speaker A: It's an ethical dilemma. But ultimately he pursues his own self interest. That's why he's a bad guy. [00:38:18] Speaker B: A few more things to add. There is when Iqbal is requesting weapons from Rehman, he says, we want the real deal. [00:38:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:30] Speaker B: We want that are made in Russia and America that have the label Made in India, made in America or made in Russia. Because if there was a further international investigation, they don't want the Pakistan name to come out. And hence they won the real deal. [00:38:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Remember no Russian. [00:38:52] Speaker B: Yeah. The other point I wanted to add was Rayman says no first. [00:38:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:57] Speaker B: They convince him. [00:38:59] Speaker A: How did they convince him? Do you remember? [00:39:00] Speaker B: Yes. Because he asked why? Why do you like. [00:39:04] Speaker A: What's in it for me? [00:39:05] Speaker B: Yes or no? What is your plan? [00:39:07] Speaker A: What's the plan? [00:39:07] Speaker B: What's the plan? And Major Iqbal says there's no harm in sharing what the plan is. How would you like to share the plan? And he introduces someone called Bhutovi. [00:39:20] Speaker A: Okay. [00:39:21] Speaker B: Who appears there Just for like a. And he shares the plan where he says it's for a terrorist attack against India. That's when Rehman agrees to see, it's [00:39:38] Speaker A: interesting and we can talk about this a little more later. But unlike the terrorists, Raymond doesn't even really seem to care very much about India. He cares about himself and his own community. You know, he's not like, oh yeah, I hate India, I'm totally on board. But that's where it eventually convinces him. Maybe. Do you think maybe he just wanted to make sure it wasn't going to be used on his fellow. [00:39:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I. That's the key. It's not about whether he's against India or pro India or He's just making sure it is not against his own community. And that's all he cares about. [00:40:12] Speaker A: Okay, so there's another attack, the third October attack. Do you remember which one that was? [00:40:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. So basically all these weapons that they are trying to collect, they try to get more information of what they're planning. And the plan reveals that the next attack is planned for third October. [00:40:34] Speaker A: There's going to be one. [00:40:35] Speaker B: Yes. [00:40:35] Speaker A: It didn't actually happen. Okay. So Jamil says Raymond has gotten too powerful. It's time to unleash the gem. Chapter five. The Gem. This is my other favorite part of the movie. And we meet SP Chowdhury, played by another actor who we know. [00:40:49] Speaker B: Yes. [00:40:51] Speaker A: Do you want to talk about him? [00:40:52] Speaker B: Yeah. His name is Sanjay Dutt. He is also a 90s actor. He is a very famous actor. His dad is an actor much more famous than him. And we watched a few of his movies. [00:41:07] Speaker A: We have. Yes. [00:41:08] Speaker B: I think he has that look that fits perfectly for the movie. And the character that he actually played. [00:41:17] Speaker A: SP Chowdhury. [00:41:18] Speaker B: SP Chowdhury. He's a real person in Pakistan and it seems his favorite actor was Sanjay Dart. And ironic that. Yeah. [00:41:33] Speaker A: Where he played his character in the movie. Yeah, that. That's right. So that was cool. And the movie with Sanjay Dut that I would recommend to people if you're interested is called Muna by mbbs. It's a classic Bollywood movie in the sense it's a comedy and there's songs and there's dancing. But it's about a old, older guy, middle aged guy who goes back to try to become a doctor to impress his father. And it's pretty good. So anyway, we meet SP Chowdhury in what looks like a salt flat. It's completely flat in a desert. There's a song being played. Guru says it's another classic 90s song. [00:42:10] Speaker B: That's right. [00:42:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And he's meeting three guys for, I guess like a drug deal or a weapons deal maybe. [00:42:16] Speaker B: It looked like a combo of weapon dealing and drug dealing where the. He just got the. Got to the deal before the deal happened. [00:42:29] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. [00:42:30] Speaker B: Kill the people involved in it. [00:42:32] Speaker A: Well, he doesn't just kill them. He's talking to a guy and he pulls the shotgun out of a bag and blows the guy's head off in a single shot. I must confess that I laughed at that part just because it was so unexpected. And then he just starts blasting everywhere. He talks about his backstory like a US crime movie. So it's like this guy is like a loose. I don't want to say like a loose cannon, but he's a mad dog. You just got a point of mad people. And he just loves violence. [00:42:58] Speaker B: As the weapon dealing scene closes, he is driving back and he gets a call from Jamil. [00:43:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Says, I got a new job for you. [00:43:07] Speaker B: Yep. [00:43:08] Speaker A: So meanwhile, there's a scene where Hamza confronts Raymond and says, don't help the isi. And they almost get it come to blows about it. [00:43:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And basically Hamza is trying to stop Rehman to help Major Iqbal to plot a terrorist event against India. [00:43:31] Speaker A: Like, I don't think. Do you think it was actually gonna work? Like he was actually gonna convince him not to do it? [00:43:36] Speaker B: No, I think it is a fair attempt. I don't think he was really catching on the possibility of being able to successfully convince him of what's wrong in life. [00:43:48] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So then we get the same old story with every terrorist attack. They pass on warnings to the Indian government and the Indian government doesn't know what to do with it. [00:43:58] Speaker B: I think they get information from the. The information gets passed and they alert on the coastal line because they do not know which. Where the. Where the attack is going to happen. And so the news doesn't come or the news is not shared with like one spot versus like 15 or 20 spots where the intelligence gets confused, but they are alerted. [00:44:27] Speaker A: Well, I mean, it's the same old story. It's just like 9, 911 there's going to be an attack. Where is it? We don't know. When is it? We don't know who's going to do it. We don't know. There's not a whole lot you can do with it. So they go on. The next scene is they go to a Baluch camp in Baluchistan. Right. [00:44:44] Speaker B: They called it Baloch United Force. [00:44:47] Speaker A: Yes. That's right. So it's. It's like a. More like a forward operating base than like a place where people actually live, even though people live there. [00:44:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:56] Speaker A: Right. So people talk to Hamza. It's like, so you're a Baluch. And I had a note here. I'm surprised he didn't get asked more about his backstory story, because this isn't exactly a huge nation. [00:45:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:06] Speaker A: So they'd be like, well, who's your dad? Where are you from? Like, who were your parents? Blah, blah, blah. Which could have been an issue because it's all made up. It's a cover story. [00:45:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Actually, good point. But a similar scene sort of happens when actually, Raymond takes Hamza into his gang. They have a very brief conversation. [00:45:30] Speaker A: Yeah, they do. He's like, so where's your family? And he's like, my family's all down. Convenient. I mean, just saying. So we get a song and dance. All met. The men are all dancing. It's only men. [00:45:42] Speaker B: So basically, we see the Baloch United Force, led by Shirwani is what they called his name. [00:45:51] Speaker A: Yeah. I didn't bother to remember this guy's name. [00:45:53] Speaker B: They give a grand welcome. [00:45:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:56] Speaker B: To Rehman. And Rahman gets his grandson, or doctor, Seat. He gives him money. Then as part of that conversation, he continues to pass down the weapons list. [00:46:12] Speaker A: Well, don't they open a bunker and there's, like, all these guns inside hanging on the walls. [00:46:17] Speaker B: Yes, but he hands off the list. [00:46:20] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. He's like, this is what we want. So this is his source for real, real guns as opposed to making counterfeit ones. So the weapons deal is on, in other words. So we get a scene with Chowdhury and Jamil, AKA the Mooch. I just call him the Mooch, where he's like, I can take care of Raymond for you, but it has to be my way. You can't tell me what to do, or you can't question my methods. All right. [00:46:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Now Jamil is. Feels insecure about Raymond. [00:46:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:47] Speaker B: So he puts at each other, did [00:46:49] Speaker A: the job, which is not so good for our hero. Our hero wants Raymond to win for now. So there's more romance. There's another song. There's a part where Yanira. Where Yanira. [00:47:00] Speaker B: Yelena. [00:47:01] Speaker A: Yelena. Excuse me. Is like playing with Hamza's gun. And that's not a metaphor. Like, it's really so. I thought that was interesting. And the SV chat resets up the Liori task force. More singing and a montage single. [00:47:15] Speaker B: So the lyari task force is an independent task force that is led by SP Chowdhury and it is independently led by him. Agenda of this task force is to get Rehman. [00:47:28] Speaker A: Right. There's a brief scene where Ra, the research analysis Wang, the Indian intelligency they mentioned they found the minister who gave away the plates. So that little plot hole is closed. Okay, now we get another big sequence. You can call it an action sequence. So they're gonna do another deal. But Raymond's kid gets sick so he can't go. And it turns out that was intentional because the task force ambushes Raymond on the road and they just open fire on a car even though a woman and child are in it with him. Right. They have the whole road blocked off and they just start shooting. [00:48:06] Speaker B: Yeah. So a point to note here is the gang actually like splits into half where Rayman, his wife, attends to the kid to take to the hospital. Whereas Hamza and Uzair. We never spoke about Uzair Baloch, who is the nephew of Rehman Baloch and [00:48:30] Speaker A: like his sidekick, his second in command, I would say. [00:48:32] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a better word. [00:48:34] Speaker A: And something interesting about him is he's taller than Hamza. You see that in multiple shots, which is interesting because it seems like he could intimidate Hamza. Potentially not so much. [00:48:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Uzair and Hamza split away from the gang and they actually go to collect the weapons that were ordered in the previous scene. [00:48:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. So it turns out that it's a diversion so that the task we learned later. So the task force can get. Yeah, so there's also a port where Iqbal meets up with Hamza. I guess they haven't left yet because he reveals that he knows that India got tipped off about the third October attack. And then they're going to change it. [00:49:19] Speaker B: Yeah. So basically this happens when they go to collect the weapons. They're having a conversation. [00:49:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, okay. [00:49:26] Speaker B: And. [00:49:27] Speaker A: Oh, they drop off the weapons to Major Iqbal. [00:49:30] Speaker B: Major. Yes, they collect the weapons and drop them off to Major Iqbal. [00:49:35] Speaker A: Gotcha. [00:49:36] Speaker B: And as they're having a conversation, Major Iqbal says, oh, now we have to change the October 3rd plan because it got leaked by an Indian guy. And Hamza gets like more attentive because he gets scared if Major Iqbal learned about him. [00:49:54] Speaker A: Yeah, but the classic spy movie trope where it's like we hear there's a spy around. Wow, I don't know who you could possibly be talking about. [00:50:04] Speaker B: Right. And then the scene as they're walking through the fake the garage Factory, Factory, factory. He takes him into a room where we get to see. See Indian spy being tortured. [00:50:19] Speaker A: Torture of the fishhooks. Yeah. So this was apparently in the trailer. I guess it's good to know. I didn't watch the trailer before I saw the movie. [00:50:26] Speaker B: I couldn't handle the scene. [00:50:27] Speaker A: It was. It was a hard scene. Yeah. And the only notable thing I have about it is Metric ball is really given to this guy. So it seems personal to him is what I'm saying. So Jamil pretends to help Raymond because Raymond is arrested. And Hamza calls Jamil. He's like, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna help. And then he just doesn't. Right. Because he's behind it the whole time. Hamza figures out that this servant, I guess you could call him a servant. [00:50:52] Speaker B: I think he's a cook. [00:50:54] Speaker A: He's a cook. Yeah. That he's a traitor. And there's more extreme violence against the traitor before they ultimately kill him. I'm surprised that they never explained why the traitor poisoned Raymond's son. [00:51:05] Speaker B: No, they do. [00:51:06] Speaker A: They do. They do. [00:51:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:07] Speaker A: Okay. [00:51:07] Speaker B: Why Hamza confirmed friends the cook and gets him to confess that he did poison the kid. And upon like the torture, he calls out that it was Arshit Papu. The opposite gang. The Patan gang. [00:51:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:28] Speaker B: Actually bribed him. [00:51:31] Speaker A: Okay. [00:51:32] Speaker B: To. [00:51:33] Speaker A: To betray his. Become uni. [00:51:35] Speaker B: Correct. That's right. [00:51:37] Speaker A: Okay, so there's also note where Hamza somehow knew about the Jam Chowder deal. Do you remember how he. Oh, is it through the daughter? [00:51:45] Speaker B: Yes. So Yelena sends Hamza a video. [00:51:48] Speaker A: Yeah. So this is spy stuff right here. Yeah, yeah. [00:51:51] Speaker B: So the video shows Harshad, Jameel and Sp Ch Conspiring to get Rama. [00:51:58] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. So they. They basically make blackmail to try to release Raymond. Well, they blackmail Jamil, but it doesn't work because SP Chattery doesn't care. And he keeps hitting Raymond. You think he's gonna kill him. But then Hamza saves Raymond's life by attacking the police station where the Lyari task force is located. And that's what eventually convinces Chowdhury to let Raymond go. Go, like in a Bridge of Spies type scene. [00:52:29] Speaker B: Yep. [00:52:30] Speaker A: But what's interesting is that then I thought Hamza would just kill all the policemen, but I guess he wasn't willing to. You know, I mean, it's like they're Pakistani police anyway. What does he care? They're all still bad guys. [00:52:42] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It. It's not about killing. It's about getting their leader released. The Agenda is to get the leader released. [00:52:50] Speaker A: Okay, that's. That's enough. Someone says something like, hamza lit a spark. I was like, I don't know about that. Do you remember that part? Somebody says, Hamza lit a spark. [00:53:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I think. Do you remember if he ties all the LIARI task force upside down? [00:53:07] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, he's gonna light him on fire. [00:53:10] Speaker B: Yeah. He puts, like, gasoline on them and he starts to, like, spark the. [00:53:15] Speaker A: Okay, that's what they meant. So chapter seven, moving on is the butterfly effect. Oh, yeah. I mean, now they're like, really tight. Right. Because now he saved him like twice. He was able to, son. And then he saved him. [00:53:29] Speaker B: Correct. And Rahman learns that Hamza and Yanira are in love, not lust. [00:53:36] Speaker A: Ah, sure they are. Well, do you think Hamza is into her or is she just a means to an end? [00:53:44] Speaker B: No, I think he's really do. [00:53:47] Speaker A: Okay. [00:53:47] Speaker B: I think he's not making a decision there on prioritizing his love life with his purpose as to why he came down. Of course his purpose is important for him, but I don't think the romance is a way to make it happen. The romance was a true place from where he came. [00:54:14] Speaker A: I disagree. I think it's just a little too convenient that this is like a total Middle Ages. You marry the king's daughter and now you're totally set. You know, that's what I think. [00:54:28] Speaker B: Yes. Also the. The part where they said inspired by the incredible events. I don't think the romantic aspect was part of it. So it can be interpreted as well. [00:54:40] Speaker A: When it comes to these inspired by true events, you have to really take it with a grain of salt. I liked how the romance did flow into the mafia story. [00:54:48] Speaker B: Y. [00:54:48] Speaker A: It makes sense and it all builds on each other. [00:54:51] Speaker B: So now it gets serious. [00:54:52] Speaker A: Now it gets serious because this is the Mumbai hotel attack. 26 11. I remember when this happened. And Hamza, like, freaks out and. Because he. He sees blood on his hands and he's not wrong. He was part of it. [00:55:07] Speaker B: Yeah. And November 26th is telecasted live. They're watching the news on the TV. They're having a watch party there. And Hamza breaks down. [00:55:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:20] Speaker B: As he sees that. And it brings back all the memories when the. When the. When he actually delivers the weapons and he hands them off to. [00:55:33] Speaker A: Yeah. It's scary. [00:55:35] Speaker B: The terrorist. Yeah. [00:55:36] Speaker A: There. There's a part where they show actual footage, just like in the attack, but the movie actually stops and you just hear conversations between the terrorists and their handlers. [00:55:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:48] Speaker A: And hostages too. [00:55:49] Speaker B: Yes. [00:55:50] Speaker A: So. [00:55:50] Speaker B: So they're real snippets of the actual conversations that happened. [00:55:57] Speaker A: Yeah. So. And just. Just if it wasn't crazy enough, everybody starts celebrating in the room where they're watching it. [00:56:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:05] Speaker A: Including Raymond, by the way. [00:56:07] Speaker B: That's right. Also, one thing to note about the recordings were they also actually mentions talk to a Jewish woman and the handlers are actually telling them. Telling the terrorists what else to do as they're watching it live. [00:56:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. That's right. [00:56:28] Speaker B: So of course it's like live instructions. [00:56:32] Speaker A: Yeah. It reminds us of the stakes and I don't know, it's just hard. I can see why Hamza took it hard, too. But fortunately, nobody notices that he freaks out. That, you know, that would have been interesting if someone had noticed. [00:56:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:45] Speaker A: It's not that kind of movement, though. [00:56:47] Speaker B: Also, he hides it well. [00:56:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. Okay, so he wants revenge. He talks to the juice seller. He's like, let's go get him back. There's some drama with Yanira. [00:56:57] Speaker B: Yeah. So there is. There's this part where he feels very disturbed with what happened and he starts to, like, wonder how the. How the intelligence was not aware of. [00:57:12] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, the classic question, right. Because I'm right here and I told them about it. [00:57:16] Speaker B: Yeah. But I don't think date was ever revealed and. [00:57:23] Speaker A: Well, no, I mean, it's like I said before, like, there's going to be a tag, but we don't know where or when or how. [00:57:27] Speaker B: Yes. However, for the third October, when they planned, these guys knew about it. [00:57:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:33] Speaker B: However, the 26th of November plan, they were not aware. [00:57:38] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:57:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:40] Speaker A: So it just is. It is what it is. So he has some drama with his girlfriend. He tells her, I want to rule Karachi. He finally gives away. He's not just, oh, I love Raymond. I just want to serve Raymond until I die. Yeah, no, he's got bigger plans than that. We jump forward again to 2009. [00:57:58] Speaker B: So there's also a subtle message behind it that his. His hate. Not hatred, but, yeah, you. We can call it hatred towards Raymond becomes much more solid after the Mumbai attacks. [00:58:13] Speaker A: Yeah, well, now, because he's behind. So he is a cog in the machine. We'll talk about this a little bit more later. Raymond is a cog in the machine, but the fact that he was, like, happy about it, or at least pretended to be, makes you dislike him more. [00:58:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:29] Speaker A: Yeah. He isn't just an amoral guy who just wants more. Now he's like. He's like part of it. So we jump over to 2009. Raymond's a politician now. There's a huge crowd for him and for the president. There's a part where Jamil destroys his own tv. Like the cliche, right? Is it Jamil who destroys his own tv? [00:58:51] Speaker B: It is Aslam Chowdhury. [00:58:52] Speaker A: Oh, Aslam Chowdhury does. Somebody does. Let's see. We reiterate that Hamza wants to be the next king of Lyari, but he deletes the video of Jamil conspiring in order to. [00:59:04] Speaker B: So there is a very subtle scene when the election results were announced. [00:59:09] Speaker A: Oh yeah, that's right. [00:59:11] Speaker B: It was Raymond Baloch and not Jameel. He has this like thoughts of that he lost the elections and he's disappointed about it. And there is a subtle moment they show where Hamza's eyes meet Jamil's eyes. They have like a connection. Connection. And Hamza then asks Yelena to invite her dad Jamil for a tea. [00:59:38] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. [00:59:40] Speaker B: This is to their little apartment. [00:59:41] Speaker A: Yeah. This is where he says, I want to be King of Lyari and we're going to work together to make it happen. [00:59:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Where he says, you have been supporting the wrong people. People all your life. How about if you support your family? [00:59:55] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. See, and that's why I think they're not really in love. That's why I think it was just to make moves for the glory of India. Hamza's wedding now. And we get a true Bollywood song and dance number here. [01:00:11] Speaker B: Yep. So basically at the tea conversation, Hamza and some up convincing Jamil. [01:00:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:20] Speaker B: To believe in him. [01:00:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:22] Speaker B: To invest in him so they together can take down Raymond. [01:00:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Which kind of makes you wonder if Raymond and Jamil had the same conversation ten years prior to take down somebody else. You know, it's hard to see Jamil as a true bad guy even though he is Pakistani and involved in all this stuff. He's just so soft. He just looks so soft, you know Jamil. Yeah. [01:00:50] Speaker B: Jamil is a pure politician. Any act he does is purely political. There's the agenda based action. He just doesn't do it. [01:01:00] Speaker A: No, I know. But it's hard to dislike him because he just looks so friendly. I don't know. [01:01:06] Speaker B: So in favor of the agreement. [01:01:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:09] Speaker B: Hamza deletes the video. [01:01:10] Speaker A: Oh, okay. Which makes you wonder if he had a backup video somewhere. I mean, that's what I would do, but whatever. Yeah. The wedding. We get what's called an item song. Do you want to explain to the Audience, what an item song is. [01:01:22] Speaker B: Yeah, it's more like a entertaining song. [01:01:27] Speaker A: Come on, girl. It's a sexy song with a sexy lady. What? Is that not true? [01:01:32] Speaker B: Yeah, something like that. [01:01:35] Speaker A: I just needed to put it that way. So we have, like, a couple of dancers, they're singing a song, and it's true Bollywood. It doesn't go on for as long as a normal Bollywood song would because it's not that kind of movie. But everyone's there. Iqbal is there, Raymond is there. And Iqbal is crowing that India didn't even hit back after the Mumbai attack and that they're planning another one. It's going to be even worse. [01:02:00] Speaker B: Yeah, so. And as part of that scheming, he says they are planning something for 15 August in a city called Amritsar in Punjab. And 15 August for the audience to note is Indian Independence Day. [01:02:17] Speaker A: Okay. By the way, Guru noticed something here that, if it had been in real life, would have gotten Hamza killed. You notice something about him that gave away that he is, in fact, an Indian. Do you remember what it was? [01:02:29] Speaker B: Yes. So he has a ear piercing, which is a very common thing for Indian men to have their ears pierced as part of a childhood ritual. And that is true only for Hindus and not for. [01:02:46] Speaker A: Yeah, he's posing as a Muslim. [01:02:48] Speaker B: Correct. [01:02:49] Speaker A: But even though you can take the earring out, but the hole that it makes is still there. [01:02:52] Speaker B: Correct. [01:02:53] Speaker A: And you can see it in this scene. Yes. [01:02:55] Speaker B: And also, men get the ear pierced as part of the event, though they don't have to actually wear a earring, though. This was not part of the movie. I independently noticed it. As the camera was panning across the couple's face, I noticed that he had ear. His ear was pierced. [01:03:17] Speaker A: Correct. Fortunately, it's just a movie, though. [01:03:20] Speaker B: Yes. [01:03:20] Speaker A: In real life, he presumably would not have had it. [01:03:23] Speaker B: Presumably he would have had it because it's the star who had it. And they just like. [01:03:28] Speaker A: No, no, but I'm saying the character in real life, the real hobbit, would not have had this. Yeah, that's right. So that was. I thought that was interesting. And he fills out a journal, invisible ink, after the wedding. That basically is like the Arya Stark assassination list. All the people that he's going to kill. We get the final chapter, E2 Brutus. We're doing something else. [01:03:51] Speaker B: Yes. I had. I had one thing in the movie that I couldn't, like, get was what did Alim. The Jew center guy. [01:04:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:04] Speaker B: What is. What is it about the dairy that he handed off to Hamza when the woman. Mumbai blast attacks happen and they meet, they talk, and he hands off the Devi to him. What. What is it about the Devi that he handed off to him? [01:04:19] Speaker A: Now, that's a good question. And I don't know, maybe it was like, write down all the people you want revenge on. It'll make you feel better. [01:04:26] Speaker B: Yeah. But it does have the invisible link and stuff. [01:04:29] Speaker A: Yeah. So you can put it. Okay, so it's the final chapter. The final chapter kind of sneaks up on you. But it is long. I think it's like a half an hour long. [01:04:38] Speaker B: So very quick, before we jump into the next one, is we see a scene right after the marriage where they are all drinking. [01:04:47] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that's right. That's right. [01:04:48] Speaker B: Iqbal. Iqbal, as he was scheming the next attack against India, checks with Rehman if he can get some weapons by August 9th. [01:05:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And he says, we're busy on August 9th. [01:05:06] Speaker B: Yeah. So they look at the dairy, and he asks Uzair to check the dairy. [01:05:12] Speaker A: Uzair is the sidekick, second in command. [01:05:16] Speaker B: Second in command for Rehman. He's drunk, so Rehman offers. Sorry, Hamza offers to check the calendar. And he picks the 9th of August when the calendar is actually busy. [01:05:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Because [01:05:32] Speaker B: he intentionally does that so that the party breaks and he can run his plot. [01:05:38] Speaker A: Yeah. So I had trouble following this the first time we watched the movie, so I'm glad you're here to explain it. So. Yeah, the final chapter. Hamza is meeting the Baluch again to get more guns. It's not clear whether Raymond, like, knows about it or was this. It was just the whole thing with the diary. It's like. Or with the planner. [01:05:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:58] Speaker A: So Hamza could go by himself. [01:06:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:00] Speaker A: There's a throwaway line that the ISI poisoned a school in Baluchistan, by the way. [01:06:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:05] Speaker A: Which is interesting. And Hamza splits up the gang. [01:06:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:10] Speaker A: Yeah. This is the deal where it's like, basically the idea is to get Raymond alone. [01:06:16] Speaker B: Yes. [01:06:16] Speaker A: And this is the part where the movie gets a little silly, if you ask me. [01:06:21] Speaker B: Me. [01:06:21] Speaker A: Okay, this may be a hot take, but Ham's plan is absurd and ridiculous. So what happens is he drives the. First of all, he's driving the car that has Raymond in it. He drives it away from the group into, like, an isolated forest where Chowdery and his men are waiting to arrest him. Okay, that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that the plan relies on Raymond falling asleep. And not just Raymond, everyone in the car falling asleep. And staying asleep until they arrive at the exact place where they need to be. And I know it's a movie and I shouldn't be that big of a deal, but fair. [01:07:01] Speaker B: But I think all that scene happens very quick, very quick. Where it could also have been shown, like not paying attention. It doesn't have to be really falling asleep. But imagine if they were looking at their phone and not paying attention where the driver is going and. Are the bikes and cars following them? [01:07:28] Speaker A: So I think the movie is also. It stretches things out in this part. So he's driving, he's driving, he's driving. The guys are slowly waking up. Driving, driving, driving, driving. Really. Raymond wakes up and he's like, I'm almost there. I'm almost there. [01:07:41] Speaker B: But eventually Raymond. It doesn't take long for Raymond to actually notice that something was not right. Doesn't take that long. [01:07:50] Speaker A: He actually like, it feels long in my memory. That's right, yeah. [01:07:54] Speaker B: So he looks in the back and he doesn't see anyone escorting before or after. [01:07:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:59] Speaker B: And there is no traffic around at all. It looks like a deserted forest. And so he asks, stop the car. Now, Now, Now. [01:08:08] Speaker A: Well, hang on. Before that, Hamza gaslights Raymond. He's like, don't you remember I said 10th August? [01:08:14] Speaker B: Oh, yes. [01:08:15] Speaker A: But Raymond, I guess is like a photographic memory or something because he's 100% sure who was it and that's how he figures it out. Which is interesting because he has literally no reason not to trust Hamza. Hamza has been through a lot with him, so I would have totally fallen for it. So they fight in the car, which is great. There's a crash, one of the guys gets launched out and he hits a stop sign on the way down. Just in case you forgot, this is a super violent movie. So SP is on the way. There's a big gun battle, there's a chase, there's a fist fight. Chowdhury fights Raymond. And then Hamza fights Raymond first. [01:08:53] Speaker B: Raymond. Sorry, Hamilton. Hamza escapes. Yeah, he runs away, leaving Raymond in the car. [01:08:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:00] Speaker B: And before Raymond like gains consciousness and he. He sort of like tries to fight [01:09:07] Speaker A: the police, the task force. [01:09:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And he escapes too. And soon SP Chowdhury follows. So there are three people who ran away. [01:09:18] Speaker A: Yeah. So this was interesting. It's like a three wave. I thought it was going to be two versus one. It's not. They fight one on one and then one on one again. Actually, Hamza fights like a sidekick guy. [01:09:28] Speaker B: Yes. Who actually like realizes halfway that he lost the trail of the Car. And he takes the diversion and come. Comes back. [01:09:40] Speaker A: Yeah. So this was not where I thought the movie was going to go with a bunch of fist fights in the woods. I know. Action over the. You know what it's like? It's like a Jackie Chan. Like a kung fu movie, like a martial arts movie where the big bad here, though, the big bad villain is also the best at punching, which doesn't. You know, that doesn't really make a lot of sense. [01:10:00] Speaker B: Yeah. But I thought Hamza could have done much better. They show many places, many instances where he doesn't fight as well. [01:10:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:08] Speaker B: And he had to fight hard. [01:10:11] Speaker A: Yeah. He also gets injured before the fight. That's always a good way to like, even the score. Because I feel like if they were both healthy in like a boxing ring, Raymond probably wouldn't have much of a chance. Like, comms is enormous. [01:10:22] Speaker B: Yes. [01:10:23] Speaker A: Right. [01:10:25] Speaker B: Do you remember what happens next? [01:10:27] Speaker A: Well, so there's. I just want to mention there's a spiky tree that people get like, run into the spiky tree. And there's a part where one of the thugs, like dual wields. It feels like a video. Like he's a boss from a video game. Yeah. Eventually he be. Beats up Raymond. [01:10:46] Speaker B: Yep. So there is a. There's a scene that they go into the past where Rayman. Sorry. Where Hamza sp. Ch And Jamil are plotting this plan. [01:11:01] Speaker A: Yeah. This trap. [01:11:02] Speaker B: This trap. And he. Hamza says, only one request I have is I want Rehman down but not dead. Make sure he's not dead. [01:11:16] Speaker A: Make sure he's alive when he hits the hospital. [01:11:18] Speaker B: Correct. [01:11:19] Speaker A: And why is that? [01:11:20] Speaker B: So that Hamza looks as if he was trying to save Rehman and he still connects with the gang and he's not thrown out of the gang. [01:11:29] Speaker A: Okay. [01:11:31] Speaker B: So that he's actually repeating the same thing he did with Ray. That's his way of getting into the gang. Here is his way of staying in the gang, though. He is killing the leader of the gang. [01:11:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, it'd just be a little too convenient that Hamza and the crew leave. Everyone dies except for him. Right. Isn't that a little convenient? [01:11:56] Speaker B: But they were not a lot to die. No, I think like three people. Three or four people. Yeah. [01:12:02] Speaker A: But I'm just saying it looks better if two of them are alive. But it is risky because what if Rema doesn't die? Then you're totally screwed. [01:12:08] Speaker B: Yes. [01:12:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:09] Speaker B: And then they show Hamza rushing Rehman to a hospital. And as soon as they arrive the hospital, they Keep him. They try to keep him alive in the auto. And there's a scene where actually Raymond tries to still attack Hamza. [01:12:30] Speaker A: Yeah, he tries to strangle. [01:12:32] Speaker B: Strangle him. And he's fighting while also seeing. [01:12:35] Speaker A: Pretending like he's trying to save. So. Okay, so I have a question for you, guru. So the fight with Raymond is the climax of the movie, I think it's safe to say. But what's interesting is I don't dislike Raymond that much. As a big bad of a big movie goes. Yeah, I don't really hate him. Do you hate him? You know what, maybe before you answer that question, I'll explain my thought. Or do you want to answer it first? [01:13:01] Speaker B: No. [01:13:02] Speaker A: So like I mentioned, he's a cog in the machine of terrorism. But he's not the head. People who I hate are the brothers, Major Iqbal, the terrorists who hijacked the plane. I don't. I hate them. I went Hamza to put their head through a spiky trait. [01:13:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:19] Speaker A: Raymond Baluch is just part of. He's just a means to an end. [01:13:23] Speaker B: Yes. [01:13:23] Speaker A: Like, yeah, Hamza has to knock him off. But he's a family man. He cares about the Baluch, he's loyal. He's not all bad is what I'm saying though he is bad. [01:13:33] Speaker B: Yeah. For me you're right. All of them are bad men. And he is equally bad. [01:13:41] Speaker A: Right. [01:13:42] Speaker B: Because Major Iqbal and Kanani brothers, without Rehman's help wouldn't have had that operation. Possible. [01:13:51] Speaker A: No, I understand that, but that's what I'm saying. He's a cog in the machine. [01:13:54] Speaker B: No, but he's equally as powerful, as enabled as the other two as well. [01:14:00] Speaker A: So he's gotta go. [01:14:01] Speaker B: Yes. [01:14:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:03] Speaker B: It's not about whether he has a heart. How does he treat his community? How does he treat his wife and kids? Obviously, if he's a family man, he does all that well. But how are his intentions towards another country? And he is the core of this weapon supply that is actually enabling them to run their operations. Cut him out. [01:14:28] Speaker A: No, I know, I hear you. But I'm saying is if Hamza threw Major Iqbal into a blender, I would stand up and cheer in the theater. [01:14:37] Speaker B: Yes. [01:14:37] Speaker A: I don't stand up and cheer when he kills Raymond. I think it's cuz Raymond is such. You just love to hate him. You know, he's just so charismatic. [01:14:45] Speaker B: I think you're looking at the actor and not the character. [01:14:50] Speaker A: That could be true. If he was uglier, maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I wouldn't like him. [01:14:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:55] Speaker A: Okay, we jump back to 2002. A flashback of Hamza without his hair. You can't even recognize him. [01:15:02] Speaker B: That's dark. [01:15:03] Speaker A: My God. We talked about him being inserted, how they looked for a criminal for the job. [01:15:08] Speaker B: Yeah. And he looked like he was kidnapped. And he's at this table with the officer and having a conversation about this operation, and he's lost. And he's trying to understand what are you talking. [01:15:25] Speaker A: That's right. And we get the reveal of his real name, which is something sang. I don't remember the rest of it. [01:15:31] Speaker B: Just Creed Singh. Yeah, just Creed Singh. I forgot his full name. [01:15:35] Speaker A: Yeah. It flips the title over, shows discrete sing, flips to Hamza Something, something, something [01:15:40] Speaker B: Hamza [01:15:44] Speaker A: Ma or something like that. And so that's the end of the movie. And it's. It's like to be continued. Right. Because obviously he hasn't dismantled terrorism in Pakistan. But even though the death of Raymond left me sort of wanting something, it was a good way to end the first movie. [01:16:02] Speaker B: Yep. [01:16:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:03] Speaker B: This is part one. [01:16:05] Speaker A: Yeah. It definitely felt like an arc. Right. He wants to take over le already. And he does. More or less. [01:16:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:16:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:11] Speaker B: Now he has power over Leori. He took one of the gangster down. What does he have next in plan? [01:16:19] Speaker A: That's right. We gotta stick around. We gotta find out. [01:16:22] Speaker B: Yep. [01:16:23] Speaker A: Spy fact versus spy fiction. All right, so now it is time for our spy fact versus fiction. I understand there's whole YouTube videos about Durandar. Which part's true? Which part's not true? [01:16:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:16:40] Speaker A: Do you have anything you want to tell us about? [01:16:43] Speaker B: No, I think I want for you to get started and I'll ag. [01:16:46] Speaker A: Okay, so I just have a couple of things. So when Hamza goes to Yelena's party, underground party, they mention these are a bunch of burger kids, which I thought was funny. It reminded me of the Burger King kids club back from when I was a kid. So there's a article called the Burger Boys of Pakistan from Imran Khan and a loaded [email protected] I didn't do the whole article. It basically just says, a Burger Boy in Pakistan refers to an urban, urban, affluent young man who is perceived as westernized and culturally detached from local Pakistani life. In this case, I guess it applied to girls as well. So the other thing I wanted to mention was on 12 October 1984, the Provisional Irish Republican Army IRA attempted to assassinate Margaret Thatcher as well as other members of the British government at the Grand Hotel in Brighton, England. Five people were killed, including the conservative MP Sir Anthony Bury. And it's remembered because the IRA has a famous quote that people like to pass around the Internet that says today we were unlucky. But remember, we only have to be lucky once. You will have to be lucky always. Give Ireland peace and there will be no war. So the idea is like the Pakistani terrorists, they can be unlucky sometimes, but India has to be lucky all the time. On the other hand, the IRA ended up disarming on camera and they're basically gone now. Well, Margaret Thatcher died of old age. So I guess you got the last laugh there. Anyway, that's what I have for spyback versus fiction. [01:18:17] Speaker B: Some things that I learned were character played by Hamza Ali Mazari is like larger than life character in the movie. If we watch the movie, the audience can relate. They show him like. [01:18:33] Speaker A: Well, yeah, like in movies they often composite five or six or more characters into one character. [01:18:40] Speaker B: So the actual Hamza Ali Mazari is probably five or six people or even more who have been sent on this operation depicted in one character. And obviously the real people did not have such kind of presence. They were always like, you know, you fit in the. The crowd. [01:19:02] Speaker A: Yeah. You're not going to remember them by design. [01:19:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And there was something about the live call records I wanted to mention was I forgot where the handoff happens as the weapons had handoff happens. There was also a way where the phones or the. The SIM cards the terrorists actually use during the attacks were also passed down by the Indian Spice. That's where the recordings were available. And they were able to trace the numbers. [01:19:33] Speaker A: Oh my God. [01:19:34] Speaker B: Get the recordings. [01:19:35] Speaker A: So they were that involved with the operation but still weren't able to prevent it. [01:19:38] Speaker B: Yeah, because they were not aware of the dates nor they were aware of the location. [01:19:43] Speaker A: That's scary. [01:19:43] Speaker B: Yep. [01:19:45] Speaker A: Anything else, girl? [01:19:46] Speaker B: I think one last one I wanted to call out is also is the connection between IC814 hijack and how is it related to 911 attack is where they were using the hijack as a test pilot to make sure that the plan, the ultimate 911 plan works. [01:20:16] Speaker A: So was there anything different about this? Because this been hijackings for a long time. What about this one made it a test run. Do you know? [01:20:23] Speaker B: Yeah, because they were able to successfully get the flight make multiple hops. The actual flight is starts from Kathmandu, Nepal to Delhi, Hyderabad. However it lands in Punjab, then Lahore and PA Pakistan. Then ultimately in Kandahar in Afghanistan. [01:20:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:20:49] Speaker B: So that gave them the assurance that they can control and it's not impossible to actually plan an attack on a using a aircraft carrier. [01:21:01] Speaker A: That's it. Yeah, Right. [01:21:03] Speaker B: So that gave them assurance and both the terrorist who was released planned the bigger 911 and the execution was also in a very similar mode of using aircraft. [01:21:21] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. Okay, [01:21:25] Speaker B: favorite quotes. [01:21:30] Speaker A: All right, so now it is time for our favorite quotes. The movie's long. I had quite a few. Do you want to go first this time? [01:21:37] Speaker B: No, you go first. Let me get my notes. [01:21:39] Speaker A: So towards the end during the fight, I think it's Raymond says I don't lose. Or maybe it's Hamza, one of them says that says I don't lose. I quite liked in the beginning those smug terrorists who I really disliked. One of them says, we live just across the border. If you think you've got the balls, do your worst. [01:21:59] Speaker B: Oh yeah, this is. This has been the hijack. Hijackers say that, right? [01:22:05] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. And it's like, wow. Turns out your worst is quite a bit. [01:22:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I have a quote that comes soon after that is when the IB Intelligence Bureau director talking to the ministers about how to retaliate, right. He says for a punch to land you have to make a fist first. [01:22:29] Speaker A: Well, I like from the similar scene they say cheers to Durandar as well. There's a part where Raymond says, I won't betray my community. Though of course he goes on to do that. There's a part where I think O Chowdhury says to Raymond, I've waited 12 years to see your blood on my shirt. [01:22:48] Speaker B: Who says that? [01:22:49] Speaker A: I think SP Chowdhury says that to Raymond. [01:22:54] Speaker B: Oh yeah, yeah. [01:22:56] Speaker A: And then finally I will say there's a part where somebody says it's not red, it's maroon. I think it's like at a wedding or something. Or maybe Jamil says it. He's like the comedy guy. So he's probably the one who said that. Okay, anything else for you? [01:23:12] Speaker B: Yep. So I like this quote where the Indian Intelligence Bureau is talking to each other and the raw head says in the context of the currency plates handed off, he says Indians are number one Indian enemies before Pakistan is number two. [01:23:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ain't that the truth? [01:23:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:46] Speaker A: Same old story again. [01:23:48] Speaker B: That's one. The next one I liked was when Hamza breaks down looking at the Bombay Blast live on the tv. He's so disturbed that he makes up his mind to take Rehman down. And he says in. He says something in Hindi. What it translates to is a wounded lion doesn't Fear death. It just makes it more lethal. [01:24:20] Speaker A: True. [01:24:21] Speaker B: Yeah. That's where he rises up to coming up with a plan to kill. [01:24:29] Speaker A: And then he does kicks ass. [01:24:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:24:33] Speaker A: All right. Anything else or is that all rating? Alright, so now it's time for our ratings. On a scale of 1 to 10 martinis, 1 being Avengers 1998 level bad, 10 being even better than Mission Impossible, Ghost Protocol. How would we rate Durandar? Do you want me to go first or would you like to go first? [01:24:55] Speaker B: You go first. [01:24:56] Speaker A: So I always like to say the pros and the cons. And I didn't write them down. So I went to go off the top of my head the pro. Crows are. It's just an epic movie. I've never seen anything like it. It's got crime, it's got emotions, it's got romance, it's got singing. It grabs you by the face with a bunch of fish hooks and won't let go until the end. Sorry. And you know the stakes. You get really invested. I think I liked it more the first time than the second time. It's just got a lot of pros, good characters, good story. It's different. The negatives are. It's long. I usually having something long is an issue for me. But we've watched a lot of Bollywood movies in the past. And the reason why I don't dislike Bollywood movies for being long is because there's enough story that fills that time. It doesn't make you wait. In this case. I didn't love a lot of the politics stuff. I felt like it was time being taken up that didn't really need to be there. The violence. I would ding it for the violence because that's not what I'm personally into. Even though some people are. And then the questionable plot at the end, it bothered me at the time. It doesn't bother me that much now. It's a really interesting movie. I can't say I would recommend it to everyone because of the violence. Like I wouldn't recommend this to my grandmother, but it's good. I think if you like spies and you like like something different, I would recommend it to a lot of people. I will give it an 8 out of 10. I think it's quite good. [01:26:26] Speaker B: Yeah, that. That's well summarized. I would. I'm at nine out of ten. And the. What I liked is most of the movie. Not everything about the movie. Showing, showing, exposing what is happening behind behind the screens. And how is the Indian intelligence planned? The stakes on the table. What is happening? How do we Deal with it. They what? They've tried what did not work. [01:26:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:26:59] Speaker B: What is the only option left? And then it exposed sides of Pakistan that I wasn't aware of. [01:27:10] Speaker A: I don't think anybody was aware of it. Yeah. Yeah. [01:27:12] Speaker B: So it was very eye opening and then the whole plot, basically. But the. The one point that I take that I did not give. [01:27:25] Speaker A: Okay. The reason why you take a martini off. [01:27:28] Speaker B: Yes. Is I wasn't a huge fan of the romance itself because the story was very gripping and every aspect of the romance. Romance just felt like a distraction. I couldn't wait for the scene to complete to get back to the story. [01:27:43] Speaker A: You know, it's funny you say that, because the second time around, the romance didn't bother me that much. It did overstay its welcome. But I was okay with it. For whatever reason. [01:27:52] Speaker B: I think romance comes second. Violence is why I took the one point out followed by romance. [01:27:59] Speaker A: Yeah. You said violence was why. [01:28:01] Speaker B: Yeah, violence is at number one. Romance is at number two. [01:28:04] Speaker A: Okay, well, that's. That's the two things that Americans love. Cool. All right. Anything else you would like to say about Durandar before we get out of here? [01:28:15] Speaker B: Guru? Nope. I hope you all like the podcast and go watch the movie. [01:28:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Check it out for yourself. Just be warned about some of the things we talked about. And is there anywhere else that. Anywhere people can find you if they want to hear more from you? Guru? Like maybe a certain other podcast that you make guest appearances on? Sometimes [01:28:39] Speaker B: I make guest appearances on Tuesday night gaming. That is Zach's another podcast with his siblings. It's about playing games while having fun conversations. Banter. Join to meet me and Zach on the other podcast. But I can't wait for the part of the movie. [01:29:00] Speaker A: We'll have you back on for part two. See what happens with Hamza. See what happens with all those guys. So thank you all for joining us. You can find us at social media at the Spy Fi guys on Facebook, Blue Sky, YouTube and Instagram, as well as our merch [email protected] until next time. I'm Zach. [01:29:18] Speaker B: And I'm Guru. [01:29:19] Speaker A: And we are the Spy Fi Guys signing off. [01:29:26] Speaker C: Thank you for listening to the Spy Fi guys. If you enjoyed our podcast, please be sure to give us a five star rating on itunes. The theme song from this podcast is Mistake the getaway by Kevin McLeod from Incompetech.com licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0. Films, books and television shows reviewed by our podcast are the intellectual property of their respective copyright holders and no infringement is intended. [01:29:52] Speaker A: This is a personal podcast. Any views, statements or opinions expressed in this podcast are personal and belong solely to the participants. They do not represent those of people, institutions, or organizations that the participants may or may not be associated with in a professional or personal capacity. Unless explicitly stated, any views or opinions are not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club organization, company or individual. [01:30:17] Speaker C: You can find our podcast on social media at the Spy Fi Guys on Facebook, Blue Sky, YouTube, and Instagram.