DEAD DROP: Star Trek: Section 31

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to the Spy Fi guys, where we cover spy facts, spy fiction, and everything in between. I'm Christian. [00:00:07] Speaker B: And I'm Zach. [00:00:08] Speaker A: And today we have. We're covering Section 31, the first ever streaming Star Trek movie. [00:00:17] Speaker B: Yes. On Paramount. Plus a movie that has had a long development history. Tell it on the screen. But, Christian, I feel like we're late to the party. It feels like the entire Internet has been dumping on this movie for the past two weeks. [00:00:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, but here we are, you know, better late than never. [00:00:33] Speaker B: Right? But here in the Spy Fi guys, we don't just dump. We have nuanced, thoughtful opinions. Right. [00:00:40] Speaker A: We'll see. [00:00:41] Speaker B: Not making any promises. Yeah. So this movie stars Michelle Yeoh, who we know and we have seen before, and tomorrow never dies. [00:00:49] Speaker A: And this was her, I believe, one of the first things that she did after winning an Academy Award. I guess she also did Wicked too. But, you know, this is her biggest big action role after that. After. [00:01:02] Speaker B: Boy, that's a contrast. [00:01:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:05] Speaker B: So here on the Spy Fan guys, as those people, as longtime audience members may recall, we are very into nerd dumps. Fandoms. Star Trek is no exception. So, Christian, would you be interested in sharing a little bit about your background with Star Trek? [00:01:19] Speaker A: Sure. I mean, I. I got into Star Trek, actually. I remember as a kid, like, watching episodes of Next Generation with my mom and my dad, mostly my mom, actually. And like, you know, I'd go around with a, you know, a hair. What is it? A headband over my eyes, and pretend to be Geordi laforge. [00:01:38] Speaker B: Very nice. [00:01:40] Speaker A: So, yeah. And then I love. I. I love that, you know, the original series movies. Those are those. I. I just have a soft spot for those. And Then Next Gen DS9, I've watched pretty much every episode of every series. [00:01:56] Speaker B: Impressive, because there are a lot of series these days. [00:01:59] Speaker A: I'm like, there may be an odd episode of TNG or, like, DS9 that I haven't actually. Maybe Voyager probably is one that I haven't seen. May have, like, missed an episode or two, but for the most part, I've seen everything. [00:02:12] Speaker B: Very cool. All the movies, too, I take it. [00:02:14] Speaker A: Yeah, all the movies. [00:02:15] Speaker B: Abrams movies. Okay, so I will go. My background is a little bit more mixed with Star Trek. I grew up on Voyager, actually, because my Aunt Colette had VHS tapes of Voyager around her house. So when we went to visit her, we got to watch them basically in a random order, effectively. [00:02:37] Speaker A: Okay. [00:02:37] Speaker B: But I remember watching the hundredth episode of Voyager, the one where they crashed into the icy lake. Do you remember that one? The one that's all about Harry Kim? I remember the finale of DS9. And then I got into TNG a bit later. I love the original movies. Yes, I love the original movies. The ones with Kirk and Spock. The Abram movies are okay, but, Christian, I'm an original new track hater. I didn't watch Enterprise, and I do not like Enterprise. [00:03:05] Speaker A: I enjoy Enterprise. When was the last time you actually watched it? [00:03:09] Speaker B: A long time ago. But I've made many attempts to try to watch it again. And I don't know. [00:03:15] Speaker A: Season four is actually very good. [00:03:18] Speaker B: Okay, you have to watch three seasons. That's the old movie way. [00:03:23] Speaker A: Need to watch maybe like the first couple. First couple episodes of season one, and you could have almost just skipped season four. [00:03:30] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. [00:03:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So then when Paramount plus came along, I watched a bit of Discovery. I didn't really like it, and I did watch all of Lower Decks, which I did like, and I'll tell you why, Christian. I'll tell you why. [00:03:42] Speaker A: All right? [00:03:43] Speaker B: It's not a prequel. Enterprise is a prequel. Discovery is a prequel. Strange New Worlds is a prequel. The Abrams movies are prequels. I can't handle the prequels. [00:03:52] Speaker A: It's technically a prequel to Nemesis because it happens before Nemesis. Or does it? [00:03:58] Speaker B: Lower Decks. [00:03:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:59] Speaker B: That is not true. [00:04:00] Speaker A: That's not correct. Let me double check. [00:04:03] Speaker B: The uniforms are different. Riker is the caption of the Titan. [00:04:08] Speaker A: Oh, no, you're right. You're right. Never mind. [00:04:10] Speaker B: Yeah, so anyway, so that's that. But I watched enough of Discovery to know Michelle Yeoh's character and all that. So, with that in mind, shall we jump into Section 31 plot synopsis? [00:04:29] Speaker A: Sure, sure. So do you have a plot synopsis for us? [00:04:33] Speaker B: I do. So, as always, we have our poetry, plot synopses, spoilers begin right here. So here is the haikus. Four section 31, one dead family, a team of seven misfits, two sad murderers. I feel like that haiku summarized the movie pretty well, if I do say so myself. But then here is the glimmeric for section 31. There once was a girl named Georgiou who chose power instead of her bow. When the past came a calling, she sent that dude sprawling. And now she just goes with the flow. [00:05:12] Speaker A: All right, all right. [00:05:14] Speaker B: And then here is the real IMDb plot summary. In Star Trek section 31, Emperor Philippa George Joe joins a secret division of Starfleet tasked with protecting the United Federation of Planets and must face the sins of her past. [00:05:29] Speaker A: Okay, so with this I guess for those who are not Star Trek fans, we have to briefly explain the concept of the mirror universe. [00:05:39] Speaker B: Well, Christian, I was about to say the problems with the movie begin literally from the first frame, which is pretty impressive, really. Okay. Yeah. Briefly speaking, there's a mirror universe where everyone's. Everyone who's good is evil, and everyone's who's evil is good. Except they don't really stick to that. But that's okay. But, yeah, no, the problem begins because the Paramount logo is reversed. [00:06:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:02] Speaker B: And the Star Trek remind you that you're watching a cold corporate franchise. A little Star Trek where the ship flies around. Yeah, that's also reversed. I was like, okay, nice. This is a good start. This is. This is, you know, something different. How much time do they spend in the mirror universe in this movie? About 15 minutes. [00:06:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Like what? Total bait and sweats? [00:06:25] Speaker A: Well, it's not a mirror universe movie. It's a Section 31 movie. [00:06:28] Speaker B: But then why have the opening credits be mirrored? [00:06:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. That was. That was a problem for me, too. I was like, what? Why are we doing this? I guess just to intro that. Okay, we're gonna start this in the mirror universe, young Philippa. And apparently, the way that they choose the emperor of the Terran Empire is by basically having a Hunger Hunger Games. [00:06:48] Speaker B: Some people had a problem with this on the Internet. I don't really so much. You know, it's a dictatorship. Society that's not run well. You need the most ruthless person to lead it. That's what they value. [00:07:00] Speaker A: Except from what we've seen before, like an Enterprise when we go to mirror Universe, that's not how. Basically, it's whoever. You know, the way we see progression in the mirror universe is, all right, you kill. You know, if you are the first officer and you kill the captain, you become the captain. Yeah. [00:07:18] Speaker B: I mean, that sounds like the Hunger Games, though. Just more scheming and less direct fighting. [00:07:22] Speaker A: No, but this is, like, all right, they gathered all these teenagers from around the Empire, and they're all fighting, and the one who wins becomes the emperor. That just. It just. It's just weird. I don't. You don't like it? No, that's fine. But her final test is she. There's only two people left. Her young Philippa Giorgio and her friend named Son. And they have one final test where they're supposed to murder their family. [00:07:50] Speaker B: Okay, so again, issues. I actually kind of liked this part. Not that. Not because I like people killing their own families. Don't take me out of Context. But because it's like, this is interesting character stuff. Okay. Is she gonna be. She's like a monster. How is she gonna redeem herself? Spoiler alert. She won't. H. We're just supposed to like overlook this. [00:08:11] Speaker A: If you watched all of Discovery, you will see sort of a redemption arc there. And. [00:08:17] Speaker B: Sure, but I'm treating the movie as a movie. [00:08:20] Speaker A: Okay. [00:08:21] Speaker B: It's supposed to be a movie. [00:08:25] Speaker A: Yeah, but yeah, so she murders her family and then like is given her, you know, ceremonial sword that she puts into the embers of a fire and burns her friend on the side of his face. [00:08:37] Speaker B: That's right. [00:08:37] Speaker A: And we, you know, hail Empress Georgiou or Emperor Georgiou. [00:08:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I really like the part where the columns transport her in. I thought that was cool. And the General Zod beam in the sky thing, which they never explained what it is. Oh no. Or it's like a ship. I don't know. Whatever. I don't care. [00:08:54] Speaker A: Yes. So now we get a Mission Impossible style briefing telling us about, you know, giving everyone who I did doesn't know who Philippa Giorgio is a background on her and the Terran Empire. [00:09:05] Speaker B: So, Christian, this reminded me of that old game, Star Trek Leaf Force. Did you ever play that? [00:09:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I did a little. [00:09:11] Speaker B: I was like, all right, all right. Again. So the beginning is like, all right, all right, we got some good stuff here. We got some good stuff. [00:09:20] Speaker A: So we're introduced to our official, you know, section 31 team. Start with Alok, who. I don't actually know his actor's name, but I don't know. I don't know any of these actors names actually. Who is going to infiltrate, you know, where Georgiou is hiding, which is this, you know, space station that's also a nightclub. [00:09:42] Speaker B: That's right. [00:09:44] Speaker A: And he goes to, you know, set up a meeting with her. [00:09:47] Speaker B: And when we first meet Emperor Georgiou, she's eating an eyeball off of a stick. Wow. Edgy. So edgy. So cool. [00:09:59] Speaker A: But yeah. So she very quickly realizes that a lock is section 31. And she very quickly identifies the entire team. And we have a Delta who we've seen before in Star Trek. [00:10:14] Speaker B: I'm going to do that for my spy fag versus fact. [00:10:16] Speaker A: That is not okay. [00:10:19] Speaker B: No, okay, we. I can cancel it. Keep going, keep going. [00:10:22] Speaker A: We get meet a guy in a mech suit, a Cameloid, who is not a changeling. [00:10:28] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:28] Speaker A: Who we saw for the first time in what Star Trek was that Six Undiscovered country? [00:10:35] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. The one that had the genitals on the knee. Good times. Yeah. You don't remember that part? [00:10:41] Speaker A: No. Oh, no. [00:10:42] Speaker B: Weed? [00:10:42] Speaker A: No. [00:10:43] Speaker B: Never mind. [00:10:44] Speaker A: What are you talking about? [00:10:44] Speaker B: That was the guy that Kirk fights now. The guy that he kisses. [00:10:47] Speaker A: Yeah. No. Yeah. Yep. A weird Irish Vulcan who laughs again. [00:10:55] Speaker B: Neat idea where they have the laughing Vulcan. Cool. It reminded me of when Data would laugh in the Next Generation and you know something's up. [00:11:03] Speaker A: And by the book. Starfleet officer. [00:11:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank goodness. A little bit of Star Trek in this movie. [00:11:10] Speaker A: So their mission is to monitor an arms sale from this arms dealer named Data. No. They find out that the Vulcan is actually a tiny alien. Like in Men in Black. [00:11:20] Speaker B: That's right. And they have authorization to mind wipe the target. Do you remember this part? [00:11:27] Speaker A: I did not. No. [00:11:29] Speaker B: So in a better movie that might be a little bit more interesting, that seems pretty unethical, but by Starfleet standards. [00:11:36] Speaker A: So let's get to the. This is my biggest problem with the movie. Section 31 is not a part of Starfleet. [00:11:45] Speaker B: It's not. I think I forgot that part. [00:11:48] Speaker A: No. [00:11:48] Speaker B: Okay. [00:11:49] Speaker A: It's never supposed to. Like, when we're introduced to section 31, DS9 there, no one knows about it. They're a secret division, so. They are not. You don't have Starfleet oversight of Section 31? No, they're in the shadows. They're performing these missions without anyone knowing about it. [00:12:07] Speaker B: Yeah. But things have changed because the fans love Section 31. So it's everywhere now. And, you know, some. I was listening to a YouTube video over this week about Picard, actually, and the YouTuber was complaining. She's like, I hate Section 31. It's a terrible idea. It's the worst thing DS9 ever did. It doesn't fit Roddenberry's vision of Star Trek at all. I'm not really going to endorse that, per se. But I definitely agree that you want to tread lightly when it comes to section 31. And the producers really don't. [00:12:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I like. I like the. The initial concept of them. I'm not. And, you know, I can sort of, you know, retcon. All right. They were more well known and they faded into the shadows after Discovery Season 2. And they even made a plot point about that. [00:13:01] Speaker B: Yeah, they work great in Deep Space Nine because Deep Space Nine is the Federation's on its back foot and they need to start compromising some of their values to survive. And that's really interesting. That's not what's going on in this movie at all. [00:13:13] Speaker A: No. No, no. Also timeline wise. So we're in what's known as the lost era between the next gen or. Sorry, no, no, we're between undiscovered country and the beginning of next gen. Oh, really? Yeah. [00:13:33] Speaker B: Oh, that's right. Because it's discovery stuff. [00:13:37] Speaker A: Well, it's also because did you recognize who the by the book Starfleet officer is? [00:13:42] Speaker B: Yes, I did. I was also going to say that for later, but we can say that now. So Rachel Garrett, the captain of the Enterprise sea from the classic fan favorite episode, Yesterday's Enterprise. Though I think the ages don't match up. [00:13:54] Speaker A: By whatever I mean she was in that sort of lost era. [00:13:59] Speaker B: Yeah, no, but I'm saying I feel like the age of her in this movie doesn't line up with her age and the episode. But I also don't really care that much to try to figure it out. [00:14:11] Speaker A: She's a lieutenant commander. This is what, 2020. What, what, what's the start date here? Or what's the date? [00:14:20] Speaker B: I saw that they put in the beginning of the movie, but I don't remember what it was. Something with it had ones. [00:14:28] Speaker A: Let's see, what does Memory Alpha say start at 129 4.2. So this is about 40. Oh, so it's 23. 24, which is about 20 years before the battle of Narendra 3, which is when Rachel Garrett was commander or captain of the USS Enterprise seat. So it works out. [00:15:20] Speaker B: Okay, good. [00:15:24] Speaker A: Anyways, so I like here, you know, they're monitoring a sale and then Giorgio uses a phase pod which takes her out of phase of the regular universe and as well as the case, out of phase so that she can, you know, only she can pick it up. That was a nice touch. [00:15:44] Speaker B: It's great. She makes it look ridiculously easy. And for her it is easy because she's a super badass from a parallel dimension. I had no problem with that. Some people didn't like the phase, her going out of phase. But this is Star Trek. As Christian, you may remember there's an episode where Geordi laforge, your boy and Rolleren are out of phase with the rest of the the crew. They're like ghosts. [00:16:05] Speaker A: Except it always raises the question of. All right, if they're out of phase of everything, why don't they just phase through the ship and go straight down? [00:16:14] Speaker B: Exactly. Well, it. Well, the ship is moving at warp speed or whatever. It's a good question. People are wondering why didn't she warp? Why didn't she phase through the ground? I mean, whatever It's. It's Star Trek. [00:16:24] Speaker A: Yeah. But. Yeah. So someone else has a face podcast and comes through the wall. They have a big fight, and he. [00:16:32] Speaker B: Looks like the sleep. He looks like the screen slaver from Incredibles 2. [00:16:36] Speaker A: Yeah, he does, actually. They have a big fight. They end up destroying a lot of the station. And the. Yeah. [00:16:44] Speaker B: People had a problem with this. The Internet had a problem with spies having loud, visible fights. It's like Mission Impossible. Again, I didn't have an issue with. [00:16:52] Speaker A: It, but the Deltan is killed before we really learn anything about her. [00:16:58] Speaker B: That's right. Can you say that again? You clutched. [00:17:02] Speaker A: Sorry. The Deltan is killed before we really learn anything about her. The masked goon opens the case and beams away. And Giorgio recognizes the weapon that was for sale. [00:17:13] Speaker B: By the way, speaking of the phasing, there's a part where she runs on the tables again. It's like, why isn't she phasing the tables? Maybe there's stuff on her shoes now. I don't know. But, yeah. So he opens the case as we were saying. [00:17:29] Speaker A: Yeah. And so we get a mirror universe flashback where San, her friend slash boyfriend from before, who she had scarred with the sword, you know, presents her with a weapon, which is the one that was in the case, and we see son kill himself with the same poison that Jojo used to kill her family. [00:17:50] Speaker B: Oh, boy. Yep. And he, like, kind of stands up to her, right? [00:17:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:55] Speaker B: He's like, you might own my life, but I defy you still. [00:17:59] Speaker A: Yeah. So we find out that a lock is an Augment from the Eugenics Wars. [00:18:07] Speaker B: Yes. That's cool. I appreciated that. And first he's like, I was taken in by an Augment, but then I became an Augment later. So that explains why he has superhuman strength and stuff. And Georgiou is smug as usual. So, Christian, this leads me to a problem I call the Etrigan problem. Maybe TV tropes has come up with it at some other point, but people who know DC Comics might know a character called Etrigan the demon. Okay. If you're not familiar with him, he's a little demon from hell who switches places with a human. And. And most times when he appears in the story, he actually is on the side of the good guys. I would say in 95% of his appearances, he helps the good guys, but he's like an asshole at the same time. [00:18:53] Speaker A: Sure. [00:18:54] Speaker B: Okay. Because he's a bad guy. And they got to remind you he's not actually a good guy, even though he only ever does Good deeds when we see him. So I feel like this appears in other fiction as well. I can't think of any examples at the moment. I don't know if you've ever seen that show Luther with Idris Elba. [00:19:12] Speaker A: No, I haven't. [00:19:13] Speaker B: Okay. So I seem to remember he has this nemesis named Alice Morgan. [00:19:17] Speaker A: Okay. [00:19:17] Speaker B: Who. They kind of have that similar relationship as well. Anyway, we have that in this movie, too, where Georgiou, despite being a family killer, is still a good guy, but she's like a dick at the same time. Just to remind you that. Oh, she has some edge to her thoughts. [00:19:36] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's just. It's. Again, it's the problem of. All right, we've seen all of her development in Star Trek Discovery, so. Yeah. I don't know. [00:19:49] Speaker B: Well, I didn't watch All Discoveries. I didn't watch All Discoveries, so I'm trying to put. Treat the movie like its own thing, which is actually helpful here, in my opinion. [00:19:58] Speaker A: Yeah. But, yes. We find out that the weapon is called the Godsend, which would incinerate everything in its path, basically destroy a whole quadrant. Yeah. [00:20:08] Speaker B: It's like a halo. [00:20:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And we. Georgio deduces that data. No. Must be from the mirror universe, because she's. He. He, you know, knew about the. About that weapon. [00:20:22] Speaker B: So. Christian, I have to interrupt you here because this is where the movie went downhill. [00:20:26] Speaker A: Okay. [00:20:27] Speaker B: And I hope it's not in your favorite quotes. [00:20:29] Speaker A: All right. [00:20:30] Speaker B: But they're walking out of this bunker thing. [00:20:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:33] Speaker B: And one of the guys. I think it's the Vulcan guy, says, excuse me, Empress JoJo, is it godsend or God's End? And I was like, oh, my God, this is actually a bad movie. [00:20:45] Speaker A: No, no, it was. I think. Was it the mech guy or. Or it's like, between the two of them. [00:20:50] Speaker B: I don't care. I was like. I was like, goddamn Joss Whedon dialogue does not belong in movies where your families get killed. No, no. Josh has a lot to answer for. [00:21:05] Speaker A: I'd argue that. I feel like there's a lot of families who get killed in Joss Whedon movies. [00:21:11] Speaker B: I'm not gonna. We're not gonna get too much into that. By the way, I. From another YouTube video where I get all my information, the guy made the argument that it was actually Buffy the Vampire Slayer. That started the quippy humor that is now inescapable. [00:21:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:27] Speaker B: Hollywood movies. [00:21:28] Speaker A: Who was the showrunner of Buffy. [00:21:30] Speaker B: Exactly. Well, and then, of course, the Avengers. The same guy. So, fortunately, he never did anything else wrong after that? That was a joke. [00:21:39] Speaker A: Okay. It was a little too straight laced when you said that. [00:21:44] Speaker B: It was a little too dry even for me. [00:21:46] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:21:47] Speaker B: So anyway, but this was where I was like, oh, no. Oh, no. And the movie never picked up after that. I did not like that. The Godsend conversation. [00:21:58] Speaker A: Yeah. So we find out that back in the mirror universe that the Terror empire is collapsing and they need something to sort of, you know, boost themselves up, and the Godsend could be it. And as they're having this discussion, the ship explodes around them. We find out that one of the team must be a mole. [00:22:17] Speaker B: And again, this is weird. [00:22:19] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, because of Star Trek. [00:22:21] Speaker B: Because they were like, okay, we were all here, you know, we're the only ones around, and the ship got sabotaged. [00:22:30] Speaker A: You said, yeah. Or exploded. [00:22:32] Speaker B: Exploded. Okay. So they were like, one of us must be a traitor. And I'm like, okay, stop, stop, stop. You're telling me cloaking doesn't exist? Personal cloaking doesn't exist? Changelings don't exist? We just saw people can phase through walls. People who are out of sync with time. I seem to remember there's an episode of Deep Space Nine where ESRI Dax has this rifle that, like, through the walls. [00:22:54] Speaker A: That's a good episode. [00:22:55] Speaker B: Like, yeah, it's a great one. But like, the point is there's all this technology in Star Trek that makes it possible for someone to get in, sabotage their ship and get out. It doesn't prove that any of them are traitors. [00:23:05] Speaker A: That's a fair point. I didn't think about that. [00:23:07] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:23:08] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:23:09] Speaker B: Like I said, you're on the Spotify, guys. You have nuanced, nuanced, thoughtful conversations. [00:23:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, no, that's. That's very. That's a. Yeah, well, cloaking, sure. I don't know if we've seen personal cloaking yet at this point. [00:23:24] Speaker B: Well, that's fair. Fair enough point. But it also shows there are so. [00:23:29] Speaker A: Many more other explanations for. [00:23:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:31] Speaker A: Why it doesn't have to be just one of the. What, five or six of them? [00:23:35] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. But then they immediately turn on each other, which, again, feels so different from Star Trek. Star Trek that I know everyone's very professional and they wouldn't immediately be at each other's throats, at least. [00:23:46] Speaker A: But most Star Trek we've seen is, you know, Starfleet officers, a ship full of them, professionals. These are not them. [00:23:54] Speaker B: And why didn't they do that? Why didn't the producers have that? [00:23:59] Speaker A: Like a Star Trek movie, section 31 isn't. Is, you know, is. Is not about a ship. Well, I mean, you could have a 31 ship, which we've seen in Discovery. Yeah, I don't know. [00:24:13] Speaker B: I mean, if anything, I haven't seen as much Section 31 stuff as you, but I feel like, if anything, the probably section 31 is there too uptight. They're. They're too secretive and they're too closed in and too mistrusting. I guess we got that covered. Whereas, yeah, these people are just so loud and boisterous and. [00:24:31] Speaker A: I don't know. Yeah, yeah. [00:24:32] Speaker B: Don't get me started. I don't even know what to say. [00:24:34] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Anyway, so. So the team splits up. Have to go with Georgio to find this other ship that's wrecked but might be salvageable. And the other half are trying to repair the comms. Now Zeff the Beck goes missing a lock and Garrett go look for him. But someone has turned on the antenna array, seemingly Zeff. [00:24:57] Speaker B: I like when they use the tricorder to try to find him. That was cool. [00:25:01] Speaker A: Yeah. And whoever used the antenna array sent a message to whoever they're working for. And so, you know, they all come back together and find Zeff's body. [00:25:11] Speaker B: So this was disappointing because Zeff was the only character who actually felt like he wanted to be there. So, Christian, do you ever watch Titans? [00:25:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:19] Speaker B: Yeah, the DC show. So for those who haven't seen it, it's about the Teen Titans, and everyone in that show is miserable. Joyless. Other synonyms are miserable, except for one person. Jason Todd. He likes being a superhero. He likes fighting bad guys. He likes actually dressing up like a superhero should. He actually likes being in a superhero show. And then, of course, they kill him. And everyone else acts like he's crazy for wanting that stuff. So that's how I felt about Zeff. Even though he belongs to Warhammer 40K and not Star Trek. But I'll let that one go too. [00:25:58] Speaker A: So they find some of Garrett's hair on Zeff's body. And they scan her and find blood under her fingernails. [00:26:06] Speaker B: Right. So again I'm like, this is Star Trek. There's a million ways you could have planted that evidence. Yeah, yeah, sorry, I did. Like, when the reveal, when it should. When they have the found footage where it shows the suit attacking himself. That was a cool idea. I appreciated that. [00:26:27] Speaker A: And I also appreciate that they act. You said, you know, this isn't Star Trek. So they're ways they could have planned on evidence. And it turns out that they did. So it wasn't such a cut and dry case. [00:26:39] Speaker B: That's right. But my criticism is more the characters immediately leaped the conclusion that she's a traitor. [00:26:45] Speaker A: Yeah, but that leads to the problem of. All right, if anything's possible in this universe, why would anyone believe anything ever? [00:26:53] Speaker B: Well, you investigate further. There's whole episodes of Star Trek based on murder investigations, but whatever. [00:27:01] Speaker A: Yeah, so we see, yeah, that footage from Zeff's suit that shows him killing himself. And then Georgio quickly figures out it was Fuzz, the. The tiny alien in the Vulcan robot suit. [00:27:12] Speaker B: That's right. [00:27:15] Speaker A: Who, you know, set his Vulcan on autopilot and then took over Zeff's suit and uses. And then used it to attack the team. [00:27:23] Speaker B: Yeah, this part was kind of cool. We had the dead body of Zeff fighting along with the Vulcan body while he escapes. And then they have this chase on like a hovercraft. The effects look. Yeah, the effects look fine, I suppose. [00:27:36] Speaker A: Yeah, it was okay. [00:27:38] Speaker B: I. I thought, Christian, maybe you can explain this. He's so small. Why didn't he just flee the Vulcan's body? I guess they have tricorders they could use to pick him up. [00:27:46] Speaker A: Yeah, or. Well, I mean, he's. I don't know. I have no. I have no good explanation. [00:27:52] Speaker B: I guess I explained it myself. Yeah, I guess I answered my own question. [00:27:55] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. Well, was he getting. Trying to get away or was he trying to, you know, kill everybody? [00:28:02] Speaker B: I think he was trying to get away because he contacted his allies, Right? [00:28:06] Speaker A: Yeah. But, yeah, so Fuzz reveals that San is actually alive. He apparently, you know, used the Dread Pirate Roberts method of immunity. [00:28:18] Speaker B: That's right. That was fine. And Fuzz also knows Georgio's backstory about killing her own family. Presumably San told her. Yeah, yeah, son told her. And he like, gives a whole speech about it. [00:28:32] Speaker A: But yeah. So apparently the SOV's plan is that he's going to detonate the Godsend and then the Terrans will invade the Prime Universe. [00:28:39] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. [00:28:42] Speaker A: And so, you know, they've gathered who remains of the Section 31 team, which is basically a lock. Georgiou Garrett and what's his name, who we've quasi. Who we've not barely talked about at this point. [00:28:57] Speaker B: The changeling guy. [00:28:58] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:28:59] Speaker B: By the way, they didn't spend a lot of time warning their buddy who got killed. Did you notice that there's like one bit of dialogue about her? [00:29:07] Speaker A: Oh, no. [00:29:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, the Dalton who got vaporized. [00:29:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. [00:29:14] Speaker B: Why should we trust Georgiou she got her killed. I don't even remember the Dalton's name. [00:29:17] Speaker A: No. [00:29:18] Speaker B: You know, and now more of us are going to get killed. So just an observation again. [00:29:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So they've gathered up. They're like, all right, well, now we know what the. You know what the plan is. How do we stop him? And it turns out that a lock is the one who took the missing coil from the wrecked ship. So that they were all stuck on the ground during their mole hunt. [00:29:37] Speaker B: Yes. I actually kind of like that. [00:29:38] Speaker A: I was actually. I was like, all right, that's pretty clever. Like, all right, you know, we need them. We're having a mole hunt. So we can't let any of us actually get away. We need to actually be ground here to figure it out. So he steals that. But so they put that back in there. We'll get this garbage scowl that they found to, you know, actually fly. [00:29:55] Speaker B: Why didn't they call Starfleet? [00:29:58] Speaker A: Because this is a Section 31 mission. I don't know, but they have Rachel. [00:30:02] Speaker B: Garrett with them, a Starfleet liaison. [00:30:05] Speaker A: This is why it's a problem that they have a section 31 never has star Trek liaison. [00:30:12] Speaker B: Not until now. It just straight up doesn't make sense, especially with the quadrant at risk. [00:30:20] Speaker A: Except we're not. We're outside of Federation territory right now is what we're told. [00:30:24] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. They don't have some spy ship. [00:30:27] Speaker A: Come on. [00:30:28] Speaker B: That actually has actual guns on it. [00:30:30] Speaker A: I mean, well, what I'm saying is that they're outside of Starfleet's jurisdiction. [00:30:35] Speaker B: Yeah, okay, but still, like, there had to be a million better ways to do this than take an unarmed garbage scout up against. [00:30:42] Speaker A: Fair enough. [00:30:43] Speaker B: You know, but I did like that their best weapon is the tractor beam. I thought that was cool. That reminded me of the Brandon Sanderson book Skyward, where they have the tractor beam as their weapon. [00:30:53] Speaker A: Yep, yep. [00:30:54] Speaker B: That I read. Because Christian recommended it. By the way, did you ever read. [00:30:56] Speaker A: The other books in that series? [00:30:58] Speaker B: Not yet. [00:30:59] Speaker A: You should. It's very, very good. I would much rather spend time reading that than watching this again. But, yeah. So the team use. Use the tractor beam to drag Son's ship into a plasma storm lock. And Georgio beam over George, Joe and Sound fight while Fuzz and a lock fight. Fuzz sets the Vulcan on autopilot and then, you know, tries to go and kill Garrett and Quasi back into the garbage scow. [00:31:27] Speaker B: Did you like the part where Fuzz says he's a microbe supremacist? [00:31:32] Speaker A: I did not catch that. [00:31:34] Speaker B: You don't remember that he has this whole thing where he's like, you big people. You all think you're so big. Well, the Smalls are going to rule the world after we blow everything up. Well, no, he says something like, you know, who can survive explosions? Microbes. [00:31:46] Speaker A: Very small things. Yeah. [00:31:48] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. So that was kind of funny. [00:31:51] Speaker A: All right. But yeah. So Garrett MacGyver is a bomb out of a toy that has. That, you know, is not allowed in the Federation and has some sort of, you know, explosive property. [00:32:01] Speaker B: That's right. [00:32:05] Speaker A: And then they eject it from the cargo bay and Fuzz is potentially killed. [00:32:11] Speaker B: I think he was supposed to be killed. Or maybe. I think they said they picked him up later because he's so small. [00:32:15] Speaker A: Nah. [00:32:16] Speaker B: No, I don't know. Well, his Vulcan suit definitely dies. There's a part where it reminded me of the two button meme. Do you remember the part where she has two buttons? I don't remember what the two buttons do, but that's besides the point. [00:32:29] Speaker A: Yeah. And then a lock destroys the Vulcan suit. Son is trying to kill JoJo with a. You know, a sword, but then she ends up killing him. And she's sad about it for some reason. [00:32:41] Speaker B: I'm glad you noticed this, too. [00:32:43] Speaker A: Like, really. [00:32:44] Speaker B: What's she so sad about? She represents a lost love. [00:32:49] Speaker A: Yeah. That which I didn't like. Michelle Yeoh. Great actress, great action star. And I've seen her do wonderful things with acting. There is only so much she can do with this material. [00:33:01] Speaker B: Yeah, seriously, that whole thing, I was like. [00:33:04] Speaker A: I was. I didn't buy it at all that she was supposed to be sad about Song killing Sa. [00:33:09] Speaker B: Yeah, she's a monster. She's blood people on her hands and she can't kill one more. Maybe he represents her lost love. It's like the sled from US that is in K and spoiler alert. [00:33:21] Speaker A: But yeah. So Georgiou takes the Godsend, which has been activated. She's gonna let it activate and tear in space and collapse this passageway. What about them? [00:33:31] Speaker B: Her ship is gonna blow up. [00:33:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Georgiou and Alok are, you know, willing to die to let that happen, but Quasi beams about, just in time. Except wasn't that supposed to destroy the entire quadrant? [00:33:43] Speaker B: Okay, so that's besides the point. So, first of all, he's trying to beam them out before it goes off. And he says, I can't beam them out. There's some kind of interference, which I love. It's nice to know that some things don't change. In Star Trek, there's always some kind of interference that prevents the transporter from working. But then when the bomb goes off, I legitimately thought it was like a dream sequence or something when they were alive again because he literally just said the transporter isn't working. So how do they get out? [00:34:14] Speaker A: But says Quasi was able to get them out somehow. [00:34:17] Speaker B: Somehow, yes. But as for the question about doesn't destroy the whole quadrant, I just. My guess is they did the Star Trek thing where it's like in the anomaly and then it collapsed the anomaly. [00:34:27] Speaker A: Because it went off. How lucky. Yeah, right. So it destroyed a quadrant in the mirror universe. [00:34:37] Speaker B: No big loss on that. [00:34:40] Speaker A: Anyway, so three weeks later, back on the club satellite, a lock and Georgiou are flirting. Except it's not a lock. It's actually Quasi. [00:34:48] Speaker B: Oops. [00:34:52] Speaker A: But she, like, realizes it's Quasi because, you know, he still can't look her straight in the eye. We fought. We see another Vulcan. It. You know, but this time, same Vulcan. It's a. No, no. Well, yes, the suit is the same. Yes. [00:35:11] Speaker B: So, like, what's up with that? Did the suit have like a twin brother or something? [00:35:14] Speaker A: No, what they say is that Section 31 bought three of those suits. [00:35:18] Speaker B: Okay. [00:35:20] Speaker A: Inside this one is Wisp Fuzz's wife. [00:35:24] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, no, I remember this. Dude. We must have survived the explosion because she's like, I'm after him. [00:35:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:35:31] Speaker B: I don't even know what to say. [00:35:32] Speaker A: And then Control contacts them with another job. We see a hologram, and Control is played by Jamie Lee Curtis. [00:35:39] Speaker B: So the Internet had a theory that Michelle Yeoh called her up and was like, hey, want to milk some money out of paranormal. [00:35:44] Speaker A: That's probably it. Yeah. I mean, they work together and everything everywhere, all at once. Which got Jamie Lee Curtis an Oscar, which she did not deserve. [00:35:55] Speaker B: You don't think so? I thought she did a pretty good job. [00:35:57] Speaker A: Not Oscar worthy of that movie. She's barely in that movie. [00:36:02] Speaker B: One of the Oscars. Don't know what they're talking about. [00:36:05] Speaker A: And it ends with a yo mama joke. Do you remember this? [00:36:12] Speaker B: I have something about Jamie Lee Curtis. No, I don't remember the Yo Mama joke. [00:36:17] Speaker A: Well, it's like, all right, did they say, you know. Oh, wait, did they say it was this. This planet or that planet? No, they said it was planet Yo Mama. [00:36:25] Speaker B: Oh, right. [00:36:26] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:36:27] Speaker B: There's. There's also a joke where I think Michelle Yo. I think George O. Says, I'll slaughter you all. That's so funny. Remember this movie Opened with someone killing their family, including a child. Anyway, that was section 30. That might be our shortest plot recap we've ever had. Now that I don't. [00:36:48] Speaker A: Well, it was also one of the shorter movies ever covered. [00:36:53] Speaker B: Spy fact versus Spy fiction. That's true. That's right. All right, so now we have our spy fact versus fiction, as we always do on this here on the Spy Fi guys. Christian, how much? I have very. I go first. [00:37:09] Speaker A: Sure. [00:37:10] Speaker B: Okay, so we, like we mentioned the Dalton is originally appeared in Star Trek the Motion Picture. Rachel Garrett's Academy Enterprise Sea. But when they first go to the bar. [00:37:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:20] Speaker B: There's a guy where his face is half black and half white. This is a reference to Star Trek original series episode. Let that be your last battlefield. [00:37:29] Speaker A: Yep. [00:37:30] Speaker B: And then finally there's a part where Rachel Garrett says to somebody who gives her a hard time for being too high strung, she says, if I wanted someone to like me, I'd get a dog. Do you remember that quote? So I'm going to assume that's a homage and not a stealing from a Harry S. Truman who has a famous quote where he says, you want a friend in Washington, get a dog. That is what I got for Spy fact versus fiction. [00:37:54] Speaker A: All right, so what I've got is just sort of a little brief history of Section 31. We first meet them in. Oh, what episode was that? Hold on, let me find it. [00:38:05] Speaker B: DS9 episode. [00:38:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a DS9 episode. I had it pulled up, but now it's gone. Sorry, what episode is that that was in? Oh, yeah, sorry. So we first meet them in a DS9 episode called Inquisition where we meet, you know, Section 31 operative Luther Sloan, who tries to recruit. What's his name? Julian Bashir. We see him a bunch through that last season of section of DS9, including what is probably arguably for me, the best Section 31 episode is called. What is it into? Into Arma and McLent Legis. In time of War, the Blob fall silent. It's very much a spy story. I would love to cover that at some point on this show. It's like in the vein of like your Spy who Came in from the Cold kind of thing. [00:39:23] Speaker B: Okay, I don't remember that one. I watched all DS9 recently. [00:39:27] Speaker A: It's very good. But yeah, so they pop up again in Next in Enterprise, which chronologically we see first and we. Although. And so the name, I think. I don't remember if it's the original episode or. Sorry. In DS9 or in. In Enterprise, we find out that, you know, the name comes from the original Starfleet charter, where Article 14, Section 31, allows for extraordinary measures to be taken in times of extreme threat. [00:39:57] Speaker B: Which it seems to be all the time, as far as I can tell. [00:40:02] Speaker A: But yeah. So we find out in Enterprise, we find out that one of the other characters, Malcolm Reed, actually used to work for Section 31 before he boarded Enterprise. Section 31 also appears in Star Trek Into Darkness, where, you know, Admiral Marcus is also the head of section 31. [00:40:19] Speaker B: Oh, my God, I forgot that. And this is where he really disliked Into Darkness, by the way. [00:40:25] Speaker A: It's fine. But I would. I would say that that's one of the first instances where you get. All right, Section 31 is a secret branch of Starfleet as opposed to acting outside of Starfleet. [00:40:38] Speaker B: That's right. [00:40:39] Speaker A: But I accepted that because that was in the Kelvin timeline. It's a separate timeline. So things are different there. Then when we come to Star Trek Discovery in the first season, we see, you know, someone with a black badge. Do I have my black badge here? There it is. I do have my black badge. [00:40:57] Speaker B: All right. [00:41:00] Speaker A: And, you know, it's a fun concept, except it's stupid. Why would you actually have a badge for a secret organization? [00:41:07] Speaker B: The classic question, the rule of cool is because it's cool. [00:41:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it looks cool, but that's about it. And this is where, again, we get into that whole thing of. All right, Section 31 is now a branch of Starfleet Intelligence. Like, ah, that's. No, that's not what Section 31 is. [00:41:23] Speaker B: Nope. [00:41:24] Speaker A: So, yeah, that. That's sort of a brief history of Section 31 as an organization, you know, from a real world timeline, chronology. Yeah, that's what I've got for spy fact, for spy fiction. Favorite quotes. [00:41:41] Speaker B: All right, so now we move on to our favorite quotes. There's certainly. These characters certainly have a lot to say. So would you like me to go first? [00:41:51] Speaker A: Sure. I've only got two, so hopefully you don't take either of my two. [00:41:53] Speaker B: Okay, so I'm beginning to give. I'm gonna begin with quotes I liked and then quotes I liked because they were so awful. So the ones I liked is in the beginning, when she betrays Sanj, somebody says one, not two, but one. Not anymore. Then just sticks the knife in his face. He says. He says to her, no one wants to live in your world, Emperor. Which I thought was cool. And then at the end when they're fighting. [00:42:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:29] Speaker B: And son. Son again. You know, he was really in the movie, but he has a lot of good quotes, which I think is interesting. Yeah, he says, go tell your family how much you've changed. Oh, and then now the ones I liked because they were so awful. [00:42:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:43] Speaker B: There's a part where Georgiou says starfleet where fun goes to die, which is like the Etrigan problem, like, right in the middle. [00:42:49] Speaker A: Kind of like that one. Okay. [00:42:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought you might. Later, she says, for tyrants, there's only one choice. Murder, which sucks. And then finally, this may be my least favorite line in all of our Spy Guys D. Christian is when Rachel Garrett says, chaos is my friend with benefits. That's. [00:43:10] Speaker A: I have that as one of mine. [00:43:11] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:43:13] Speaker A: Oh, God. [00:43:14] Speaker B: That made me want to get up and walk out of the room. Whatever they paid her to deliver, that. [00:43:19] Speaker A: Line is not enough. [00:43:21] Speaker B: All right, and what's your other one? [00:43:22] Speaker A: Well, my other one was don't get your Prime Directives in a bunch. [00:43:26] Speaker B: That's also really bad. I would have written that down if I'd remembered it. Yeah, it doesn't even make sense. You can't get directives in a bunch. Also, why are they talking about the Prime Directive? [00:43:40] Speaker A: It was directed at Rachel Garrett as the only actual person from Starfleet ratings. [00:43:50] Speaker B: There we go. All right, so now it is time for our ratings. On a scale of 1 to 10 martinis, 10 being Mission Impossible, Ghost Protocol, and 1 being Avengers 1998. Or will it be replaced with this movie? [00:44:05] Speaker A: Oh, interesting. [00:44:06] Speaker B: Let's wait and find out. Christian, you want me to go first again? [00:44:09] Speaker A: Sure, you can go first. [00:44:10] Speaker B: Okay. So like I said, I don't love how the Internet's been dunking on this movie for the past couple of weeks. [00:44:16] Speaker A: Yeah, we need to get our turn first. [00:44:18] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So the characters are super annoying. The plot is very boring. People are. Others have pointed out that in Star Trek these days, there's always a doomsday device. There's always revenge. Those are the two things you always have. Even Michelle Yeoh really can't save it. And as if everything weren't bad enough, this movie broke my tv. [00:44:41] Speaker A: How? [00:44:42] Speaker B: I was halfway through it. I was watching. I think it was the scene where they were talking about who's the traitor? When the picture went out and the sound kept going, and it's dead. [00:44:54] Speaker A: Wow. [00:44:55] Speaker B: It would cost me almost as much to fix it as just to get a new TV. [00:44:57] Speaker A: Oh, man. Ouch. [00:44:59] Speaker B: True story. It's a 100% a true story. Now the question. So the question now is, is it worse than Avengers 1998 and I think. [00:45:08] Speaker A: No, I don't think so. Okay. Yeah. All right. [00:45:10] Speaker B: Because. So Avengers 1980. What it had going for was Sean Connery. But the problem with Avengers is that it's boring. And this movie is not boring. There's a lot of things you can say about it. At least it moves along and at least it's pretty short, so. Drumroll, please. My final verdict is I will give it a 1.5. [00:45:31] Speaker A: All right, 1.5. What did you do? [00:45:35] Speaker B: Leaning more towards 2 than a 1 point than 1.5. [00:45:38] Speaker A: But we gave it a 1. You gave it a 1, I gave it a 2. And I will rank this above that. I'm looking at other things that we've listed as, like, lower, lowest scoring. We got Hudson Hawk. [00:45:52] Speaker B: We were too harsh on Hudson Hawk. [00:45:54] Speaker A: Yeah. What else we have here? That was quite low. Oh, you gave the. Oh, we both gave the tuxedo A3. [00:46:05] Speaker B: That seems fair. That seems about right. [00:46:07] Speaker A: I'm gonna give it. I like. This is. It is higher than Hudson Hawk for me, actually. No, I don't, you know. Well, you know, Hudson Hawk, looking back on it was fun at least. [00:46:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:19] Speaker A: So I might re. I might re rate that if we ever went back to it, but I'm gonna give this a 2.5. It's below the tuxedo. It's pretty bad. But I mean, like, the saving grace is Michelle. Yo. She is still fun here. Although, you know, I was a little disappointed by some of the action. Like, it was just. It was just kind of there. It wasn't well thought out. I was. I didn't. Sometimes when I watch these shows, especially, like, you know, this. Some of Discovery and some of these are not these, but some of the, like, Star. Star wars shows where they have a lot of use of the volume and you could tell that. All right. They're using a lot of AR screens. This one did use a lot, but I did. I never felt that as much as some of the Star wars shows, like, the effects looked good, if nothing else. [00:47:10] Speaker B: All right, that's true. The effects look good. The fights looks good. [00:47:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:15] Speaker B: So it had some stuff going for it. [00:47:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, two and a half out of ten martini's for me. [00:47:23] Speaker B: All right, great. Anything else you want to say? [00:47:27] Speaker A: No, no. I would say yeah, like, if you. If you want some spy, you know, spy flavored Star Trek, go and watch any of the section 31 episodes of DS9. It is much better there. Like. Yeah. Enter Artem. And I'm Senate Legis is, I think one of my favorite episodes of DS9. So if you want, like, that's. And that's a pure, like, spy story with Bashir. [00:47:50] Speaker B: Very nice. [00:47:52] Speaker A: Yeah. So I like watch that. Or if you want more fun spy, you know, spy themed DS9, go watch our man Bashir. [00:48:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Which we may also cover at some point. [00:48:04] Speaker A: Yes. Yes, we do. All right. [00:48:07] Speaker B: All right. Well, thank you for joining us here on the Spy Fi Guys. You can find us on social media at Spy Fi Guys, on Facebook, Blue sky and Instagram and our merch [email protected] and also you can find us on YouTube as well. Until next time, I'm Zach. [00:48:22] Speaker A: And I'm Christian. [00:48:23] Speaker B: And we are the Spy Fi Guys. Signing off.