The Fourth Protocol guest starring Chris

[00:00:01] Speaker A: The unthinkable has just begun. We are the spy fi guys, and this is the fourth protocol. [00:00:08] Speaker B: Welcome to the spy fi guys. [00:00:11] Speaker A: So I apologize to the universe for that. [00:00:14] Speaker B: Yes. Wow. [00:00:16] Speaker A: Justice for Denison. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Is it, though? [00:00:20] Speaker A: I laughed, and then I hated myself for laughing. Hello and welcome back to the spy fi guys, where we cover spy facts, spy fiction, and everything in between. [00:00:36] Speaker B: And I'm christian. [00:00:38] Speaker A: And today we are back with a spy fiction derived movie called the Fourth protocol. [00:00:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And it is one of Brosnan, or Pierce Brosnan. I almost called him James Brosnan, Pierce Brosnan's earlier film roles. And so I figured be it being a Pierce Brosnan film, let's bring on probably one of the biggest Pierce Brosnan fans I know, Chris, aka British Bond addict. [00:01:02] Speaker C: Hey, everybody. How you doing? [00:01:04] Speaker A: Hi, Chris. Welcome. Happy new year to everybody. [00:01:07] Speaker C: Thank you very much. Happy new year to you guys too, and, of course, to all of your listeners. [00:01:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So Chris and I met through the Capitol Royale James Bond fan club over here in the DC area. And I remember one of the times we were going around talking about favorite bonds, and almost immediately you said, browse in. So I was like, oh, okay, let me keep that in my back pocket, because what I like to do when we have bond fans on, we don't always give, you know, put, you know, throw them with bond movies because, you know, we talk about all the time. So I think it's fun to bring you on and talk about a non bond that a bond actor is in. [00:01:40] Speaker C: Absolutely. I think this is the least bond we've ever seen. Brosnan, as in, like, the least heroic he's ever been, is good to see him in this role. I'm very much looking forward to seeing. Discussing it. [00:01:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:01:50] Speaker A: It's nice to see him expand his roles from a suave super spy to a robot. [00:01:57] Speaker B: So this came out, what, 1987, is that the same year that living daylights was out? [00:02:03] Speaker C: Yes, it was the same year living daylights came out. And I think it was filmed after he was actually snubbed for the role. Part of the performance starts to make sense. [00:02:12] Speaker B: So two films come out. There's this and Taffin, which have you seen Taffinous? [00:02:18] Speaker C: I've seen parts of it. I know it very much leans into his irish heritage. [00:02:21] Speaker B: Oh, yes. And the famous quote, well, maybe you shouldn't be living here. That's good. It's good. Alison Doody. It's great. While we're talking Brosnan, what is everyone's favorite non Bond Brosnan movie? [00:02:39] Speaker A: That is an interesting question. Can I think of one. [00:02:43] Speaker B: I'm sure you know, at least one only. [00:02:46] Speaker A: Mama mia. [00:02:46] Speaker B: Okay. That. [00:02:48] Speaker A: I did enjoy that. [00:02:49] Speaker B: Wait, you did or didn't? I didn't quite hear you. [00:02:51] Speaker A: No, I did. I thought he did a good job in it, too. I thought he was cool. [00:02:55] Speaker C: He has a kind of a bit, an important role, but a bit role in the film the Long Good Friday, which I think had the same director for this film, but because he was so kind of minimal in that, I'm gonna switch it up and say November, man, that was one I watched recently in quite. [00:03:07] Speaker B: He doesn't even have a name in. What is that? The long. What was it? What's it called? [00:03:12] Speaker C: Longer. Longer Friday. No, he's just kind of henchmen. [00:03:16] Speaker B: He has, like, a few, like, credited is like the first irishman or something like that. [00:03:20] Speaker C: I think something really weird, but like, yeah, he's like, I was like, the ending of that film, he plays kind of a crucial part in that moment. So I. I consider it a above, like, cameo role. Interesting. [00:03:30] Speaker B: All right. Yeah. So that's on my list. I haven't actually seen that one yet. I've been like, I've been doing with the Connery films. I've also been going through all of the Brosnan film. So in a really haphazard order just of, oh, what's on? What can I find? And this one, I was like, oh, this is spy related. I'm going to save this one for the podcast. [00:03:51] Speaker C: Yeah. Have you watched Mist outfire again yet? Because he's very interesting in that role. [00:03:55] Speaker B: I have not, but I'm like, it's on my list. I'm like, because I haven't seen it since. I really, you know, like, really realized, oh, that's Piers Brosnan in that. [00:04:05] Speaker C: Yeah, that's the thing. [00:04:06] Speaker A: Do you mean misses doubtfire, or did they make a sequel called Miss Doubtfire that I wasn't aware of? [00:04:11] Speaker C: It's miss now. [00:04:12] Speaker B: That's the prequel. Yeah. [00:04:15] Speaker A: So I've been looking at Pierce Brosnan's filmography briefly. I also enjoyed black. [00:04:20] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:04:20] Speaker A: And I like, oh, no, he's a. [00:04:23] Speaker B: Part of that movie. Definitely. [00:04:26] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think that probably be something. [00:04:30] Speaker B: It's a toss up. I really like him in, oh, the Thomas Crown affair. Like, I love the Thomas Crown affair. And then I've got a soft spot for what is it called? After the sunset, which is like one of his just after Bond roles. I think it's, I don't remember if it came out before or after the matador, but it's him. It's Salma Hayek. He's again, you know, a thief. And there's heisty elements, but it's also like the Caribbean, I believe. And so it's like, you know, tropical something. All right. This. It's a real. It's a fun, relaxed movie. You got an early what's her face? Naomi Harris in there. And then you've also got Woody Harrelson and blanking on his name. And I just had it Don Cheadle as well. So it's a fun movie. Yeah, yeah. [00:05:17] Speaker C: But he's also in a film called the Foreigner, I think, and that was alongside Jackie Chan, which was a combination I didn't think would ever happen. [00:05:22] Speaker B: It's an interesting one, Zach. I think I recommended it to you. Do you ever watch it? [00:05:27] Speaker A: No, I never got around to it. I like Jackie Chan, though. He was also in maybe this is some of your favorite movie, Mars. [00:05:32] Speaker B: Oh, yes. I did rewatch that. For my rewatch, I was like, oh, yeah, he's got a small role, but, you know, he makes. He makes a meal out of it. [00:05:44] Speaker C: Oh, he can hammock. [00:05:45] Speaker B: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. All right, so. But let's get to this movie. So the fourth protocol. It is based on a book by Frederick Forsythe, who also wrote the day of the Jackal. And this is by. So we'll get into the actual movie. But I just want to talk about, like, just the first scene of the production credits, or, like, you have this guy winging a gong. It's like, I've never heard of this. The Rank Organization production company. [00:06:14] Speaker C: They're quite a big british film company for films of this era, especially. And a little bit earlier, I wasn't unfamiliar with that. And there's actually a few british things in this which I'm going to bring up. I'm sure it probably might have skipped you. [00:06:25] Speaker B: I was gonna say, like, there's definitely things in here. Like, I'm sure this is supposed to mean something, but I'm glad we have an actual Brit on to cover this. But before we get into that, Zach, do you want to hit up our synopsis? [00:06:38] Speaker A: Okay, so, as always, we have our poetry plot synopses. The spoilers begin here for anyone who hasn't seen the movie. So we'll start with our haiku. Homemade atomics. Berenson betrays UK. Almost fell asleep. [00:06:54] Speaker B: Okay. All right. All right. Wow. [00:06:57] Speaker A: That's a bit of a hint. And then next is our Limerick plot synopsis. There once was a Britain named Preston, whose job was very clandestine. He fights subway thugs and gives his sons hugs he's a pain in his. [00:07:11] Speaker B: Boss'S intestine Bravo, Zach. Bravo. [00:07:15] Speaker C: That was fantastic. [00:07:16] Speaker A: I think that summed up the movie pretty well. And then here is the IMDb plot summary. John Preston is a british agent with the task of preventing the Russians from detonating a nuclear explosion next to an american base in the UK. The Russians are hoping this will shatter the special relationship between the two countries. [00:07:33] Speaker B: Plot synopsis. So, yeah, we start off with a time or, like, a timeline of, you know, when things. What. Where we are, basically. And we. They mentioned Kim Philbye. They mentioned that, yeah. The 1968 treaty. And there's. Within this treaty there are four secret protocols, but only one remains. What does that mean? Who knows? [00:08:00] Speaker A: Did he ever explain what the fourth protocol is in the whole movie? [00:08:03] Speaker B: But I have something for that in our spy fact versus spy fiction. [00:08:08] Speaker A: I hope so. So, yeah, the mention of Ken Philby was intriguing. [00:08:12] Speaker B: Tell me more about Phil be. I don't think we've actually had a movie with actually Philby in it, though. There was an analog for Phil being what's the good shepherd, if I recall. [00:08:24] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. Also in the credits, I recognize Julian Glover. [00:08:29] Speaker B: Julian Glover. Also Michael go, aka Alfred from the all the Batman. Batman's the Burton and Shoemaker. Batman's. [00:08:40] Speaker A: You watch old movies, you never know who's gonna show up. [00:08:42] Speaker B: Also composed by Lalo Schifrin, composer of the Mission Impossible theme. I like that. As I saw Julian Glover's name, I was like, huh? Does he have a record for, like, most Bond actors that, like, he's worked with, like, as opposed to other people? Like, he. Obviously, he's done this movie with Brosnan. He did what was it, last crusade with Connery? Roger Moore for fear as only. And apparently he's in Wuthering Heights with Dalton. [00:09:11] Speaker C: Wow. [00:09:12] Speaker B: I don't think I looked at after that, I was like, let me see. Anything with Craig? No, but there's still a chance could still happen. And nothing with Lazenby, because Lazenby is, you know, Phil Margaret is pretty limited. Good point. [00:09:25] Speaker C: Well made. [00:09:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:26] Speaker B: I was like, oh, that's gotta be. It's gotta be some kind of record for, like, you know, most bond actors or person who has acted against the most Bond actors, whether it's in a Bond movie or nothing. All right, we start off with some bunch of snow, like almost a tundra as a guarded building, and we meet Kim Philby. He's supposed to be meeting with the head of the KGB but they said, oh, no, you have new orders. And then the guard shoots him. [00:09:57] Speaker A: So do you guys think someone making this movie was working through some issues with Kim Philby and this, maybe, I. [00:10:02] Speaker C: Mean, semi interesting that Philby was still alive when this film was made. [00:10:08] Speaker B: Yep. What was it? [00:10:14] Speaker A: No, he probably was, but I just imagine the people making the movie were like, wouldn't it be great if he died of violent, sudden, scary death? [00:10:22] Speaker B: I was wondering that. I was like, he's pretty. Like, I know, obviously he's dead now. I was like, I don't think that's how he died. It didn't even occur to me, like, oh, yeah, he was still alive when this was made. [00:10:34] Speaker A: Yeah. It's an interesting observation, actually, of all. [00:10:36] Speaker C: People as well, who would have a grudge against somebody like Kim Philby? Frederick Forsythe, who I believe was also the producer for this, he would be one of those people. He's like, fiercely patriotic, all that sort of stuff. [00:10:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I do find it kind of cool when they do the Indiana Jones doctor who thing of a historical figure making a small appearance in a fictional story without being the main character or anything like that. [00:11:00] Speaker B: So we get Pierce Brosnan in a soviet uniform. His name is Major Pentrovsky. I don't remember what his first name is. [00:11:09] Speaker C: Yeah, it took you very long with many ks and different constant sounds. [00:11:14] Speaker B: So he's being given a secret mission by the head of the KGB, who's Gavorchin, if I recall. [00:11:22] Speaker A: Something I absolutely love about this movie is the characters introduce themselves a lot. They say things like, as chairman of the KGB, I order you to. [00:11:30] Speaker B: It's very helpful. Cause there's a lot another one of those, you know, sea of white guys. [00:11:36] Speaker A: Yeah, that's definitely true. But it also reminded me of Archer, where the guy's like, no, I'm head of KGB. [00:11:42] Speaker B: But, yeah, so he's given this secret mission, and he reports only to the KGB head. And then he tells him that, all right, Major Pavlov, which, you know, is like, well, I hear a bell ringing now. But, yeah, Major Pavlov's gonna brief him. We find out that Panchovsky is also the star of the illegals directorate. And so he's expected to do a good job here. [00:12:06] Speaker A: His precursor to the Americans. [00:12:08] Speaker B: We next move over to the UK. It's New Year's Eve, and we meet Preston, who played by Michael Caine, whose name, first name, I've also forgotten. Is it John? Is it John? [00:12:23] Speaker C: I do love the standard action movie cliche of, oh, crap, our main guy needs a first name John. That's an everyman name. [00:12:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:12:31] Speaker A: There you go. And it's always funny to see Michael Keane as a redhead instead of gray hair, which is how he used to sing. [00:12:38] Speaker C: Yeah, that's interesting. I watched lots of films from when he was younger, like the IP Chris file, the italian job. I'm more used to seeing him younger. So seeing him in between is what I find quite peculiar. [00:12:48] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. He. Is that in between? Yeah, I've seen, I've seen the original italian job. I think that may be the only thing that I've seen for him. Like, oh, well, let's see what year this is. 87. I guess. [00:12:59] Speaker A: The man who would be kept. [00:13:03] Speaker B: So is his role in operation market Garden. What's the movie? A bridge too far. [00:13:08] Speaker C: Oh, I surprised you not seen the IP Chris file because that is, like, quintessential on our list. [00:13:14] Speaker B: It is. Yeah. [00:13:15] Speaker C: Okay. [00:13:16] Speaker B: I just haven't read the book. The book is. [00:13:18] Speaker C: The book is awful. Just watch the film. [00:13:19] Speaker B: All right, good to know. Good to know. But yeah, so I like, here he's, you know, pounding on the door to flat, trying to get in, and like, he talks his way past the guard to get into the party. [00:13:31] Speaker A: I liked when he's blowing the safe and times it for the new year's fireworks. [00:13:34] Speaker B: Although I did. Oh, yeah. Go ahead, Griff. [00:13:37] Speaker C: I say that has. That is the longest 32nd timer I've ever seen. Like 10 seconds. Just been like 1 second. It was inside. I was watching that, like, come on, this is ridiculous. [00:13:46] Speaker B: Now, it did get one of. Well, so when he's like, breaking into the place, it did catch. One of my pet peeves for in movies is when they have, when they do lock picking because they usually only ever have the pick. They never have the tension wrench. You need both parts, not just one. Breaking into that safe behind the mirror. I like the safe cracking tools hidden in the wine bottle. It's nice. But yes, he blows the safe and he gets out some jewelry. And then he also pulls out a briefcase, which is seemingly empty. But he, like, you know, shakes it around and some top secret Ministry of Defense documents fall out on the film. [00:14:23] Speaker C: I got the impression he was looking for them. Well, apparently in the book, a professional thief just stumbled across them and did the right thing while still being a thief. [00:14:32] Speaker B: That's a twist. [00:14:32] Speaker C: That's an interesting book. [00:14:34] Speaker A: Yeah. But talk about having it be cleaner where you have your main character doing it. Cut some corners. [00:14:39] Speaker C: Oh, it's an introduction where you can see that Michael Caine is doing a Michael Caine performance in this role. [00:14:45] Speaker A: What do you mean? [00:14:45] Speaker C: Oh, that's this. This style of what we see Michael Caine doing. Granted, he's got a hell of a range, but a lot of his films are the exact character you're seeing right now. [00:14:55] Speaker B: We get a meeting at the Ministry of Defense. Preston is told to sit down. He's giving the dressing down. It feels like an m briefing is what I have in my notes. [00:15:05] Speaker A: Yeah, it's way worse, though. I would describe him as getting chewed out. [00:15:08] Speaker B: Also, we have. Here's where you meet Julian Glover, who's actoring director general Harcourt Smith. [00:15:17] Speaker A: That's right. I wrote it down. He says, as director general of the security services, he does it too. Sentence the Russians. [00:15:24] Speaker C: I can't go two sentences without mentioning my job. [00:15:28] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. He's very proud of himself, I'm sure. [00:15:32] Speaker B: So we find out that the man whose flat he broke into is called Berenson. He's with the. With NATO and he's out of the city with his wife, but he might come back because he's got a mistress. [00:15:46] Speaker A: Yeah, this whole Berenson thing was kind of interesting, but I was like, how is it going to relate to the overall story? [00:15:51] Speaker B: Because they spend. So we get Harcourt Smith and Preston having a talk alone. We find out that Harcourt Smith doesn't like Preston because Preston's loyal to his predecessor, who is currently sick. Director general, whose name Bernard Heminggest, who we find out later is played by, almost called him Alfred. Go, Michael, go. Petrovsky. I misspelled it here. Given his orders by Pavlov. All right, I made one. Pavlov's dog joke. I don't need to make another one. You know, there's an additional note and he sees it and reads a note and knocks out and kills Pavlov, which I saw coming. Yeah. [00:16:33] Speaker A: Oh, you did? [00:16:34] Speaker B: I mean, it's a top secret, you know, mission. So the fact that he wasn't being given his orders from. From Groschen, I was like, all right. And he says, this person's gonna give you orders? Like, oh, he's a dead man. [00:16:49] Speaker A: Don't do a good start. A little nice little bit of action. [00:16:53] Speaker B: So one of the other folks in the briefing who. I don't remember what his actual position. He's one of the ones who never says his position, but Sir Nigel Irvine talks to the current director general, tells him what's going on, and we see Berenson coming back to his flat and who's on his way back, he's calling his mistress and, like, as soon as he gets in, he sees his vault doors blown open and is like, I'll call you back later. [00:17:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I can't really blame. [00:17:23] Speaker B: Him for, like, freaking out as this is going on. Preston's listening in on a bug, and we see that Branson goes into a tube station and he's being followed. And, you know, I like how he passes by. You know, there's a busker who passes by, and, like, he's turning around. He's very suspicious of everyone around him. And it's interesting to see this. So I think I've probably told this story on this podcast before about how I've done a sort of surveillance 101 class with the spy museum, and I was the person being followed. And it's just like, no idea who was actually. I just knew that I was being followed. I have no idea who was actually following me, except for the fact that they were. Had headphones on because they were all in sort of like a open communication line. And so I kept looking for people who had headphones on. But of course, everyone has headphones on nowadays, or earpieces. I had no idea, like, I'd see some couple recurring faces, but I was like. And at the end, some of those recurring faces when I found out who was actually following me were people, and others were just random people that I never saw again. It was like. So it's just a crazy feeling to know that you're being followed, but no idea who's following you and just trying to avoid that. [00:18:31] Speaker C: Yeah, I like as well, at this point, you start to realize it's definitely more. I was kind of thinking this might be part action film. This is definitely more of an espionage style film, especially what we've seen Michael Caine doing so far. And then this. That was a nice realization. I didn't know anything about the film before going into it. So to realize that actually we're looking more at some quote unquote genuine spy stuff was a nice realization. [00:18:51] Speaker B: Yeah. So Branson answers a pizzeria. Preston comes down to surveil, and we see that. Yeah, every person that Berenson ran into on the tube is in the back of the van because they're all, you know, working for this curious. [00:19:06] Speaker A: Oh, really? [00:19:07] Speaker B: Everything. The busker, the. Everyone else. I can't remember all the. There's like six people back there. [00:19:12] Speaker A: That's what happens when you get the big box for the Mi five. [00:19:16] Speaker B: Actually, that raises a question. Cause is he mi five or mi six? Cause he's running operations in the UK. [00:19:23] Speaker C: Gotta be mi five, surely. [00:19:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:26] Speaker A: Unless the movie got wrong. [00:19:27] Speaker B: Like, they never mentioned mi five or mi six, I guess they say the security service, which is mi five. That's right. Preston figures out that it's like a drop situation because it's, you know, they can bring and bring, bring things in and out via the pizza boxes. [00:19:43] Speaker A: Yeah, it's pretty smart. [00:19:45] Speaker B: They send one of the people to follow one person who leaves with a pizza box and then the rest of the team follows another person. And we never really find out the result of that. But we next cut to the south african embassy where Preston and Nigel Irvine come to see Berenson for a quiet word. I always liked that phrase. [00:20:05] Speaker A: So here's a question. Do you guys believe Berenson's story about why he did it? [00:20:11] Speaker C: I bought it because I can see somebody thinking they're doing the best thing because he's saying all the stuff like South Africa being the. Was it the most. The most committed anti communists and not getting all this stuff. So I could see where he think is going and just having the mis sight of. Oh, shit. Actually, I've obviously made this open. Like the. I met somebody or did they make you like, lines like that? Kind of sold it for me. [00:20:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:20:34] Speaker A: He doesn't seem the smartest guy. So I could see him getting bamboozled pretty easily. [00:20:39] Speaker C: Especially to your point as well. The fact that later Winkler being not very smart was an important part of the plot. Maybe there's just some dumb dumb. [00:20:46] Speaker B: Could be. Could be. He says that, you know, oh, we're not part of. We're left out of NATO planning due to some, you know, political. You know, I forget what his exact phrasing is like. Just, you know, political differences. Oh, you mean apartheid. So more than just a little difference there. [00:21:07] Speaker A: So then I like how we obviously got tricked by a communist plant to just leak information to them. [00:21:15] Speaker B: But. [00:21:15] Speaker A: But then I linked the reveal when they were like, yeah, we're gonna give you false information now. [00:21:20] Speaker B: Now he's a double agent. And, yeah, it's a good turn. I mean, like, yeah, you. He could. He gives him the choice of, oh, you know, either we can throw you in jail or, you know, my bunch of my men can, you know, work on you with screws and whatnot. Or you can do this. [00:21:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I like scary Michael Kane. [00:21:37] Speaker C: It's all delivered in the most british way. It's like I say, good chap. You might go onto your fingers and. Yeah, possibly your bones or. [00:21:44] Speaker B: So we meet Karpov, who's watching news about the KGB, including there's some defector who's, like, on, I think it's. Was that british tv? Who was. He was supposed to be on? And, like, they happened in the, like, darkened, you know, can't see his face. I was surprised they didn't have the voice scrambler, too. [00:22:03] Speaker C: Well, the fact also, as well, is the most distinctive Shiloh I think I've ever seen. If you knew that guy, you could tell. I assume in these sorts of situations, they put an actor in and then darken the face to make it look dramatic and whatnot. But if they. If they didn't, you're like, oh, shit, that's Vlad. [00:22:19] Speaker A: There you go. [00:22:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And I like, Sokarpov's, like, to that point, he, like, watches it and then rewinds and replays again. Probably figure out, oh, I know exactly who that is. But the thing that threw me off here, though, is that most of the russian or the KGB generals or higher ups do not have russian accents. [00:22:42] Speaker A: Well, I like that because the fake russian accents are very distracting. [00:22:45] Speaker B: I don't know. I always. It just threw me off. One of them had, like, a british accent. One had, like, an american accent. Like, come on. [00:22:54] Speaker C: I think, like, there was a choice, obviously, not to do fake russian accents all the time. And Brosnan's incredible irish russian accent is something. But, like, I also get the feel, like, the way the film turns out. And I'll try to be spoiler free until we get to that point. It's actually kind of setting up the viewer for the twist at the end, per se. So I think part of it might have been deliberate in a very, like, slightly. Slightly subconscious sort of way. It's unlike who's working for and what their true intentions are. [00:23:20] Speaker B: Gets a call from General Borisov. And Borisov is in charge of the illegals program. Wants to know why Karpov's taking all of his best men. Gives him details of the Petrovsky Petrovsky plan. But Karpov doesn't know anything about this. And this is all general grovshins plan. [00:23:39] Speaker A: Yeah, and he doesn't squeal either. Christian, did you get that joke he's played by Ned? [00:23:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:46] Speaker A: Okay. Thank you. Just wanted to get credit. [00:23:49] Speaker C: Yeah, I appreciate it. [00:23:51] Speaker B: That's your go to for him. My go to was, hey, it's Otis from Supermande. [00:23:58] Speaker A: Otis Berg. [00:23:59] Speaker B: Otisberg. Yeah. We also find out that Petrovsky's cover is James Edward Ross. [00:24:12] Speaker A: That's right. What a name. What a name. [00:24:15] Speaker C: I love the reveal of him in England. With this, like, intense music. Sting. Driving a very regular Ford. [00:24:23] Speaker A: Did you say a Ford? [00:24:24] Speaker B: Ford, yes. [00:24:24] Speaker A: An american car. [00:24:25] Speaker C: Yeah. It's a Ford XR three, I believe. It's just the camera pan out, and it's just like, him behind the wheel. It's like, oh, no. He has four doors in the trunk. [00:24:35] Speaker A: It's just scary. [00:24:36] Speaker B: So, yeah, Ross. Because, I mean, Ross is easier to remember than Petrovsky. So he meets with a leading agent, or aka, you know, a real estate agent, as we'd call it here in the States. I was like, oh, my gosh. [00:24:49] Speaker A: Look at the spy action. While he searches for a house. [00:24:52] Speaker B: Yeah, he's going. Trying to find a three month rental. We see that. Like, he looks out the window, there's barbed wire, and it's right next to an american air base. And there are jets flying overhead right there. Then this is Baywater's american air base. [00:25:09] Speaker A: American, baby. [00:25:10] Speaker B: Although, no, those jets did not look american. I don't know what they were, but I don't think they were actually american. [00:25:15] Speaker A: Who were you? Sijdev. [00:25:18] Speaker B: So, yeah, we go to a signal station in Russia where there's a message that's taken to Groschen, and it's. He's told that we're proceeding with the plan. [00:25:28] Speaker A: That's right. Whatever that is, it's yet to be revealed. I wasn't that intrigued. [00:25:33] Speaker B: I was curious. I mean. All right, you can start to put together the pieces. All right. There's an american air base. It's definitely gonna be something to do with that. [00:25:40] Speaker A: There you go. [00:25:42] Speaker B: And then we see the first of a couple of different, like, deliveries to Ross. We see a man in an airport with skis who's like, I got a cast on. And he drops the skis over to Ross. [00:25:52] Speaker A: Right. [00:25:53] Speaker B: And then here's where we see Ross meeting his neighbors, who are Americans, who presumably work at the. One of them, who presumably works at the air base. [00:26:01] Speaker A: And they're the most Americans american you ever americaned. [00:26:09] Speaker C: More specifically, it's the general preacher's perception of what american. [00:26:12] Speaker B: Ah, there it is. And the. [00:26:15] Speaker C: Did you notice the tenuous bond link during this? [00:26:17] Speaker B: Maybe. If it's the one I'm thinking of. [00:26:20] Speaker C: I. I noticed it and couldn't believe it. It's a song they're dancing to in the air base. They're dancing to stand by your man, which, of course, was sung by Minnie driver in Goldeneye. [00:26:29] Speaker B: That's a different tenuous bond link than the one I was thinking of. [00:26:33] Speaker C: Wonderful. [00:26:34] Speaker B: Well, I mean, it's not even really a bond link. The one I'm thinking. So the actress who plays the wife, who's, like, definitely eyeing up Ross. I don't recall her name, but she also played opposite Connery in the terrible, terrible film five days one summer. Spoiler right here. Yeah. He play. She plays his niece, and they have an affair. It's gross. [00:26:57] Speaker A: Wow. [00:26:58] Speaker B: It's terrible. [00:26:59] Speaker A: Very edgy. [00:27:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And they're like. I mean, this is Connery in older Connery, too. So it's just like, ew. [00:27:09] Speaker A: Mustache Connery. [00:27:11] Speaker B: Well, I mean, mustache Connery doesn't necessarily mean it was older Connery. It's just. It's mustache and white hair connery. [00:27:17] Speaker A: So, getting back to what Chris said, I don't remember that song. In Goldeneye, does he go to a country bar at one point? [00:27:24] Speaker B: No, it's what's his bar? Yeah, at his. His girlfriend, Irina. [00:27:32] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I'm the one you can't sing. Exactly. Yeah, I remember that. I only, of course, know the songs. Handbagger man from the Blues Brothers. [00:27:41] Speaker C: Of course. [00:27:42] Speaker A: Yeah, of course. [00:27:44] Speaker C: I'll tell you what. You can make an edit with the car chase, I guess, later, and possibly some bubble gum stuck. Oh, it's. No. There's glue sticking the pedal down. There's a crossover we can do somewhere in there. [00:27:54] Speaker B: There you go. Ross takes his motorcycle to a spot in ice. So I have it here in the country. Would this actually be considered the country where he goes to, where he picks up something from the trucker? [00:28:04] Speaker C: I mean, I guess, yes. I mean, I'm from the country myself, or at least what we call it. It's basically anywhere that's more green than built, more green than urban. I mean, that looked like kind of a stop off on the. Like, that looked like a very american sort of stop off. I don't really. Haven't really seen many places like that in the UK. Be alcohol at the country and some of the. Some of the clips to and fro between clearly parts of England, which I know quite well. And, yes, I would say it was country. [00:28:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:29] Speaker C: American's country is like a hundred miles of nothing. British country is 3 miles between two towns. [00:28:36] Speaker B: But, yes, he picked something up from a trucker, and he's putting all these various pieces of whatever he's getting in the freezer. [00:28:43] Speaker A: Oh, boy. [00:28:44] Speaker B: Preston meets with Harcourt Smith, and he's told that he's being moved. He's moving departments to c five, airports and ports. So he's off the high, you know, high priority stuff, and now he's just monitoring what comes in. [00:28:59] Speaker A: Boy, it's lucky that he clydes with the plaid. [00:29:02] Speaker C: Yeah, this was one of the biggest, like, cliched moments of the, like, they don't even wait. There's not even, like, a week of him, like, being like, oh, this is boring. And it sucks. It's just like immediately he finds the next piece of the puzzle. [00:29:11] Speaker B: Yep. Well, it kind of falls into his lap or, you know, falls into a truck into his lap. [00:29:18] Speaker A: But you know what? I do appreciate that the Berenson story from earlier didn't, like, I know I was complaining about that earlier. I was like, where is this going? But I like that it didn't intersect with the overall story because it makes a little bit more sense, a little less. It's not so convenient writing. [00:29:34] Speaker B: You mean, like, you know, whatever the pre title sequence of a Bond film is leads directly into the film. [00:29:40] Speaker A: There you go. There you go. [00:29:42] Speaker B: Good point. Because we're bond fans, we're going to keep bringing up bond. When was the last time we had one that was disconnected from the rest of the film? [00:29:49] Speaker A: Can't even think of it. [00:29:51] Speaker B: Pre bros then. [00:29:53] Speaker A: Mm hmm. [00:29:54] Speaker B: Pre Dalton. [00:29:56] Speaker C: I think probably Moonraker. [00:29:57] Speaker A: Yeah, we just did Moonraker. [00:29:59] Speaker B: I know it is connected because that's what they have. The theft of the Moonraker. [00:30:03] Speaker C: Yeah, I was thinking of the. The jaws flapping his wings part. Yeah, you're right. There's that bit. [00:30:08] Speaker B: I mean. Yeah, that's before that. Right. It's the. With the. Is that. With the acrostar? [00:30:13] Speaker C: No, that's the delicate. [00:30:15] Speaker B: That's right. The tickle. That's right. That's Blofeld. We have Ross waiting for a delivery. The delivery guy doesn't show id at a checkpoint and is chased and runs right into a truck which kills him. [00:30:26] Speaker A: Is onto a pretty good start. [00:30:27] Speaker B: So we get the autopsy to the body where Preston just happens to be there. I like this. It's, you know, the me is actually saying, all right, this is suspicious because he's supposed to be, like, a dock worker, but he has, like, no calluses on his hands. He's basically looks like he's never carried anything that was more than 20 pounds. So he's never carried anything, whatever that is, in stone. I don't know. [00:30:48] Speaker C: That'd be 1 st and six pounds. [00:30:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Some good detective work here. And they find a polonium disk on. [00:30:56] Speaker B: Him, which has to be part of a detonator for an atomic bomb. Dun dun dun. [00:31:05] Speaker C: I'd love if it's just like a really fancy coaster and they just run the entire time. [00:31:10] Speaker B: Yep, yep. Go back to General Karpov, who is, you know, being driven around by another KGB officer, who he finds out has also not. Finds he knows has also been driving around Philby, but he's, like, talking to the driver, like, all right, I haven't seen Philby in a while. Where have you been driving him? Dun dun dun. [00:31:31] Speaker A: Well, they do the annoying cut in scene. Game of Thrones is notorious for this, but now I can't unsee it when it's like, you, my rival, either you tell your wife that I'm cheating on her, or I will. And then they look at each other, and there's a cotton. It's like, well, what happened? Did the guy just turn and walk out the door? And we never learn. We never find out. [00:31:56] Speaker B: We can probably assume that he told him what's going on in this particular case. [00:31:59] Speaker A: Yes. [00:32:00] Speaker B: Also see karpov meeting with a scientist, Professor Krylov. Karpov wants him to tell him about the plan. Tries to scare him by telling him that Philby is dead. So here. There we go. There's your answer, zach, I guess. [00:32:11] Speaker A: There you go. Yeah, it's figured out later. [00:32:14] Speaker B: And this is the crazy part. I was like, he also tries to threaten him with explicit photos of his son and another man and says, we don't tolerate this sort of thing. He'll be sent to, you know, a labor camp for five years if we don't cooperate. [00:32:29] Speaker C: And they weren't even suggested photos. They were full on in the moment. [00:32:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I was surprised to see that here. [00:32:37] Speaker A: Sometimes being in surveillance pays off. Good stuff. [00:32:42] Speaker B: Yeah. We get Harcourt Smith arguing with Preston because Preston's reported about the body, but he doesn't believe him, and it starts waving around his authority. Oh, I'm the acting director general. I have authority. And now you're suspended. Suspended for insubordination. Indefinitely. [00:33:00] Speaker A: That's right. [00:33:01] Speaker C: To be fair, all people to pull off the line. Acting head, sunshine. I think Michael Caine is in the very small percentage of people that can. [00:33:07] Speaker B: Actually make it work. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. [00:33:11] Speaker A: So, by the way, half of this movie, I thought that Julian Glover was Jared Harris. [00:33:16] Speaker C: Oh. [00:33:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. Now that you say that, that's funny. [00:33:25] Speaker C: Oh, gosh. Yeah, I really do see that. [00:33:28] Speaker B: Wow. [00:33:30] Speaker A: So the guy is, like, a total jerk at this part, and he takes him off the case again. [00:33:36] Speaker B: Well, takes him off a different case. Last time it was the Berenson case. Now it's this case. [00:33:42] Speaker A: That's right. [00:33:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Which he just magically happened to find. So we get Preston on the tube. On the tube, there's a black woman who's being threatened by skinheads. And Preston gets up, knocks the skinheads out in like two punches, then it gets off. [00:34:00] Speaker A: Great part. [00:34:01] Speaker B: Here's my. I liked it also. I don't know, I remember how I found this, but apparently one of these guys who's playing a skinhead is the voice of daddy Pig and peppa pig. I don't know if it was the one talking or for the one who doesn't talk, like, now I kind of want to go back. He's like, do I hear daddy picking all of this? [00:34:23] Speaker A: That's quite the career trajectory, right? [00:34:26] Speaker B: If I recall, like, his voice for daddy Pig is just his voice. So it's been a while, though. [00:34:33] Speaker C: Rest in peace, David Graham, voice of grandpa Pig. What was I going to say? Something interesting about this as well. I need to watch the film a few more times to see if there's any sort of, like, symbolism and stuff. I do find it very interesting that we see the skinhead wearing the union flag in that scene, and then the next time we see the union flag, it's the very wholesome him playing with the automatic plane in his and. [00:34:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:34:56] Speaker C: I'd like actually, if there's actually more of a thread running through, because both seem like very ott examples to have the union flag in frame. [00:35:04] Speaker B: Uh huh. Interesting. I didn't, I did notice, you know, in a couple scenes when he. When it is on the box for the model plane, but I was like, I didn't, I didn't really. It really registered for me that the skin had had it on. [00:35:16] Speaker A: Aren't they like Chavez? Or is that the term? People still say that? [00:35:19] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Chavez is still a thing. Do you know what Chavez stands for? Council houses and violence. Yes. Chaps are very much still a thing. And those, those chaps were definitely true, Chris. [00:35:32] Speaker A: I told a christian about this already, but have you seen the meme where it's what Americans think the English are like and it shows James Bond in a suit and then it says what Europe think the English are like and it shows a football who again, like, passed out in a gutter. [00:35:43] Speaker C: Yeah, we've been next to a fight going on behind. [00:35:47] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. [00:35:48] Speaker C: Wait till you find out what the English think the English are like. [00:35:53] Speaker A: I can only imagine. So, actually, speaking of memes, the next part with the, where he visits his son was the are you winning, son meme. That's what it reminded me of. [00:36:04] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah, he comes home, he gives his housekeeper. The night off, his son is playing with army man. We see a picture of his presumably dead wife, either dead or divorced. We don't really find out. [00:36:15] Speaker A: Presumably dead, or else he wouldn't still have her picture. [00:36:18] Speaker B: That's true. Good point. And so we go to some naval officers arriving at a hotel lobby, and Ross is there waiting. He goes to the bathroom. They're trying to make a transfer of the rate of the radio, but they're caught by someone. Ross goes to confront him. This was interesting here. Like, Brosnan saw him. My immediate thought was that it's, you know, someone from mi five or a cop or something who's observing them. But bros didn't stop. Oh, this is. This is a gay man who was trying to, you know, pick up someone. [00:36:51] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I thought too. Christian. Yeah, I thought he was into it. That would have been a twist. [00:36:58] Speaker C: That's things they also. There's no. You could not act more guilty in that scenario until the guy literally leaves him. [00:37:06] Speaker B: If he has a room here. No, but my car is nearby. So they go in his car, and Ross is about to have the guy go down on him and then kill with a knife. [00:37:16] Speaker A: Oh, boy. [00:37:17] Speaker B: Ross is back in his flat, and the doorbell rings, and it's his, you know, neighbor, his american neighbor, who's inviting him down to the base to a few beers. They go bowling, which apparently, Ross is great at. [00:37:30] Speaker A: Yeah, this is great. Well, he's an illegal, right? He got trained to do american stuff. [00:37:34] Speaker B: There you go. Yep. [00:37:35] Speaker A: And the American's wife's, like, so in love with him. [00:37:38] Speaker B: Oh, she is so into him. To be fair, it's Pierce Brosnan, so it's not hard to believe. [00:37:46] Speaker A: Except he's Pierce Brosnan as, like, a robot. He shows, like, no emotions at all, like, ever. But I loved then they dance to. Sometimes it's hard to be a woman again. No, it's not. Again, it's different. But the song is also from the Blues Brothers. [00:38:01] Speaker B: Ah, okay. Okay. I was, like, wondering what the connection was. Oh, interesting. [00:38:05] Speaker A: We actually. It's the same song. It's just two different parts. [00:38:07] Speaker C: I was talking about. I was talking about this moment earlier. I got our scenes mixed up. Yeah. To be a woman that leads into stand by your man and this Moscow mules. By the way, I love the kind of, like, the fact he's driving a Ford, the fact when they're in the american base, they're drinking Moscow mules. It's not subtle, but I do appreciate it. [00:38:27] Speaker B: Yep, yep. But, yeah. So the wife is definitely trying to put the moves on Ross but he, like, has to turn her down because he's so focused on the mission and he's, like, at home upset about it. [00:38:41] Speaker C: I wonder. I wonder if part of it as well if there was a thing in his head about, like, this is just me going off a tangent while I was watching this. Like, is there also, like, a repulsion from people who are so patriotically russian to Americans? Like, is there a part there where he's like, I'm angry because I wanted that to happen. And it's like, oh, and these american women, that sort of thing. I wonder if that was, like, a character interesting. [00:39:06] Speaker B: It could have been there. I don't. I'm wondering if it is because, like we said, this is based on the novel. So I'm wondering if there's more of that in, like, motivation in the novel. Yeah. [00:39:15] Speaker C: I'd assume he'd probably get some of his internal monologue or something like that. Or at least something saying he felt shocked himself for being attracted to Americans. [00:39:23] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. This is gonna be a weird tangent I'm gonna laugh on but, like, I always find it interesting how films are trouble that are based on novels. What they do to try to present any of that internal monologue whether it's just they actually say something or if they, like, have to express it all with, you know, just facial expressions. But my. I don't know if it's a favorite, but just the most curious one that I've seen is the eighties dune where they just have voiceovers of what all the internal monologues are, you know, we. [00:39:55] Speaker A: Need to bring back as characters talking to themselves in movies. [00:39:58] Speaker C: Yeah, I think, like, the version we got of that was, like, Brosnan late. I think it's a later scene. Brosnan's in bed after looking through the window at the woman and then kind of groans and looks to the side. And that could be all manner of things he's feeling. I could have been like, shit, I left the oven on. Like, you really just don't know. [00:40:18] Speaker B: Preston and his son are flying a mull airplane. This is where we get. Yeah, that union flag box. [00:40:24] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I like that union flag box. [00:40:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And we have Irvine coming to see Preston. He reveals that there's a sleeper cell in East Anglia which has just become active. And I'm like, East Anglia? Why does that sound familiar to me? [00:40:40] Speaker A: Doesn't sound familiar to me. [00:40:42] Speaker B: I, like, had to google it. All right. I feel like it's something Harry Potter related. [00:40:47] Speaker A: Okay. How'd it go. [00:40:48] Speaker B: Apparently, it's potentially where the great, like, Hermione Granger's family lives. I was like, it's got to be something more specifically that. I was like, oh, wait, I'm. Maybe I'm thinking of the Ford Anglia card, which is what the Weasleys has. Maybe I don't even know where East Anglia is, but it's like. It just sounded familiar to me. [00:41:07] Speaker C: Yeah, East Anglia is like kind of a county. Like, you know, you guys have states. We have counties like Hampshire, where I'm from. East Anglia is like a collection of those counties. [00:41:13] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. But, yeah. So that sleeper cell has come active and they sent out two messages. And we know that the soviet spy who is, you know, who's assembling the bomb is looking for a replacement disc. So what Preston has to do is has to go through all the recent immigration records of soviet bloc citizens and try to find who the courier is going to be. And they say, what about Harcourt Smith? Is he, you know, is he going to interfere? No, he's too busy working on getting a knighthood. [00:41:42] Speaker A: So they also mentioned that the soviet agent building a bomb violates the fourth protocol. So I can only assume that the fourth protocol is don't build homemade bombs in each other's countries. [00:41:53] Speaker C: I think the thing I saw when I did a little bit of research was that fourth protocol is the unconventional transportation of nuclear devices from one country to another. [00:41:59] Speaker A: There you go. [00:42:00] Speaker C: Instead of. Instead of being like, hey, I've got a nuclear bomb. I'm just moving it over here. [00:42:03] Speaker A: Yes, I have a fully assembled one. Just do it in pieces. [00:42:07] Speaker B: Yeah. So Preston's working with a lab tech who's teaching him about how the atomic bomb would work. This looked like. Do you guys remember Mac? Did you guys ever have, like, an old fashioned Mac, like they're using in this movie? I think I remember MACD paint. [00:42:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:22] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what this looked like. It looked like he was just drawing the circles in Mac paint. Pretty much find out that the uranium that's needed is small, about the size of a child's football. Or, you know, as we'd call it in America, soccer ball threw me off. I was like, when? Because we see it later, it's like, oh, of course, when he says football. [00:42:41] Speaker A: I didn't notice that. [00:42:44] Speaker C: Like, twice as heavy as lead, too, right? [00:42:46] Speaker B: Something like that, yeah. Yeah. So Ross gets the delivery of the uranium looking like a kid's toye. [00:42:51] Speaker A: That's right. [00:42:52] Speaker B: We see Karpov and Borisov discussing the plan. Blows up at the american base, the Americans get blamed, which will, you know, rip apart NATO. But if he's caught, Russia will get blamed and they'll be right back in the cold war. [00:43:05] Speaker A: It's not world War three if the new stones are flying, which they might anyway, if a device goes off. I don't think they thought this through very well. [00:43:14] Speaker B: No, no, not really. I mean, it turns out what Gorovian wants. Does he want World War three? Does he want. What does he want? I don't know. [00:43:21] Speaker C: It's interesting. It's interesting the choice of will be back in the Cold War. Thing is, when this film was made and released, they were still in the Cold War, like, obviously, kind of sounds like it was coming towards the end, perhaps. And they might have been aware of. [00:43:31] Speaker A: Certainly compared to where we are now. [00:43:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I believe they were probably in the era of petestroika and glasnost. So that era. But maybe it's more like we'll be back at the height of the Cold War, is probably what they should have said. [00:43:44] Speaker C: It's interesting that the Russians are fearing that. I quite like that sort of try. [00:43:49] Speaker B: To think of options. Can we use the professor? No, he's going to change his story that, you know, the minute we try to get him to, you know, testify to anything. Or we could try to get rid of garroshen. Well, I want to be, you know, still alive. Thank you very much. So instead, Karpov will watch and wait. So we next cut over to. There's an orchestra performance. And as all that is going on, someone's delivering shoes to Ross. Presumably, it's another component of. And he puts the whole shoes, not even trying to figure out what part his. Just the whole thing in the fridge freezer. And we have Preston looking at all the recent immigrants from the soviet bloc on his old fashioned apple computer. [00:44:32] Speaker A: That's right. [00:44:33] Speaker C: British racism. [00:44:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. We see Ross loading a gun. And this is hilarious to me. So he's looking across the street through the windows where there's a bunch of, like a bunch of naked people who are either swingers, strip poker or they're swingers. My second thought was swingers. And he, like, looks over and smiles. He looks over at his neighbor's house with the wife, who's hot for him, and she's washing dishes. [00:45:04] Speaker A: And he's frustrated, finally shows some emotions. [00:45:09] Speaker C: I find it interesting. They're obviously trying to suggest something. The fact he's watching the overweight wrestling. Then there's like this voyeurism thing. There's clearly something they're going for here. I just haven't quite figured it out yet. [00:45:19] Speaker B: Not sure if they know what they're going for. [00:45:21] Speaker C: It's very Frederick Forsyth. He wasn't a script writer, and I believe he was the script writer for this. So I wonder if he was trying to do a few things and went, oh, this won't work. Ignore it. And they've already filmed the bloody thing. [00:45:30] Speaker A: Yeah. I would have loved a little bit of Ross's thoughts about killing all these people that are living right next door to him that he's come to know. He have any thoughts about it? Does he feel bad about it? [00:45:43] Speaker B: Anything? [00:45:45] Speaker C: Normally he just takes a shower. I think there's two times with, like, a dead body next to him. [00:45:49] Speaker B: That's right. Yeah. So we cut over to a port office where someone's going through immigration and we see someone taking photos of this particular passenger through some one way glass. And Preston is at his computer, still going through the list. His son wakes up, wants to help. [00:46:08] Speaker C: Walks and says, are you winning, dad? [00:46:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, as they're going through it, we see the camera zoom in on Heathrow on the screen. [00:46:17] Speaker A: Dun dun dun. [00:46:19] Speaker B: And on a bus from Heathrow, we see a woman get off and she meets Ross. This is Irina Vasilieva. Do you recognize her? [00:46:28] Speaker A: No. [00:46:29] Speaker B: Well, she plays Zora in Blade Runner. [00:46:32] Speaker A: Is that one of the replicants? [00:46:33] Speaker B: Yeah, one of the replicants. I don't remember which one is Zora. And she's also t'Paul's mom on enterprise. [00:46:39] Speaker A: Oh, I never watched push enterprise. [00:46:42] Speaker B: What? I love enterprise is that the one that has been a long road getting from there to here is enterprise. [00:46:49] Speaker C: The one that has a really weird, like, ballad song as a credit sequence. [00:46:52] Speaker B: Yep, that's what I was just referencing. [00:46:55] Speaker A: Anyway, so with this movie, I liked how she had red hair because of course she did. [00:47:01] Speaker B: We get the phone ringing at Preston's, then we find out that they have a lead. So back at Ross's flat, they get back there and there's jets flying overhead. And this just reminded me. So I've been to Virginia Beach a few times, and sometimes there are just, like, f 18s just flying right overhead. And they're just so loud. And they were even. Not even as close as the ones that are pictured here. So the fact that they're just like, that low must been so loud. [00:47:28] Speaker C: It's not a particularly unusual thing. You see it more towards Wales. I mean, there's. There's been times where I've been rock climbing in Wales and the jets have been lower than me while I've been climbing. So, like, they. Yeah, they do. They. They don't mind that stuff. And they don't care if you do mind. [00:47:43] Speaker A: I used to live across the street from a fire station and fire trucks were very loud. But you could close the windows and that would be fine. You would not be able to handle living here. No wonder they get into swinging. [00:47:56] Speaker B: But Ross and Irina are supposed to be posing as husband and wife. But there's only one band. I think not. Comrade Major Preston gets, you know, picked up by one of the other security service people and is given a file. It's the man from the port who we find out has, you know, came in under a forged passport under the name of a spy that the FBI busted three years ago. And his real name is Ivan Komyschenko. He's a KGB radio expert, so he's probably the transmitter in East Anglia. So we see Irina, given the supplies. She told she was working the attic. Ross tries to offer a drink. This is one of the things that you get. You were just talking about Zach, where we never get an answer. Does she take the drink or does she just turn it down? It just cuts. Yep. Again, I like this part. This was crazy. I didn't realize what was going on until, like, it happened because we see, you know, Ivan is on the train and he. And the train is pulling away. And then. Anyways, he drives through the train station onto the platform nearly onto the tracks to get Preston close enough to jump on the train. [00:49:07] Speaker C: It was a beautifully timed shot. Like, cinematic widening was perfect. So much so that he. It looks like he. I know, obviously, this is probably how the film was made to look but he only just makes onto the last train car and, like, I don't know if that took more than one take but that would have been a pain to set up. And there was no reason for it either. He could just go on the train. Normally, there was absolutely no reason for that. [00:49:28] Speaker A: We needed a little bit of excitement. It was slow moving. [00:49:32] Speaker C: Yeah, that's what you get for the first time. [00:49:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Irina is dissembling all of the components from all their hiding places. I like, you know, the one hidden in the. In the heel of the shoe, the nesting doll, all the various parts. We find out that the bomb will devastate 2 sq. Mi with two to 5000 people dead. And, like, here's. We get some. Some kind of emotion. I wasn't sure what he's thinking, but he's trying to express something from Brosnan. [00:50:03] Speaker A: Trying to, I guess on that point. [00:50:06] Speaker C: When we find out it's going to be over 50,000 later because of the protests, it would be nice if there's a follow up with more of whatever emotion that was meant to be. Be. [00:50:16] Speaker B: Yeah. So Ivan gets off the train, he's looking behind him. We see that. I like this shot. Preston is on the other side of the tracks as. And you just see him get revealed as the train goes by. It's a classic cliche, but it's a good shot. [00:50:30] Speaker C: Yeah. And cinema sulky wise, I mean, this film had a split focus shot and it pulled it off without you guys even really noticing it. I mean, then, like, you guys, but like, the audience, I mean, it's one. [00:50:39] Speaker B: No, I didn't even notice. [00:50:40] Speaker C: It's when what's his face again? So many damn names in this film when they're saying, like, oh, actually your information has gone to the Russians. With him in the foreground and Kane in the background, you can see the split cut between the two. [00:50:53] Speaker B: A split diopter. I gotta go back and try to find. [00:50:56] Speaker C: Yeah. But, yeah, cinematography wise, it's a. For what is not. It definitely doesn't come across as a high budget film by any means. It's got very good shots. [00:51:05] Speaker B: Yeah. What it feels like. And we can talk more about this in the reviews, but it feels like, you know, like a Saturday night movie of the week that's on tv rather than actual, like, theatrically released film. [00:51:17] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:51:17] Speaker C: A criticism I saw this film was that it felt like it was a. [00:51:19] Speaker A: Made for tv novel. [00:51:23] Speaker B: So Ivan goes to a cafe and Preston goes to follow him. We also cut back to Irina putting the bomb together. She needs Ross's help when it gets a little more complicated. Pretty tense here when she's pulling the wire through and she's telling, oh, no, don't put those close to each other. [00:51:39] Speaker A: Yeah, you got to keep them separated. They say the bomb is one and a half kilotons. It will destroy everything within 2 miles. So I like how the stakes are high, but it's not like the world is going to end. Well, you don't know that for sure. [00:51:53] Speaker B: Right. And I also like the go signal. He's supposed to listen to the radio. Wait for a mention of Colonel Gaddafi in the third item. [00:52:00] Speaker C: By the way, something I checked. This is something called the radio thing. Was the BBC World Service. Oh, yeah, the one for. I've listened to it in a few different countries. I go to the BBC World service on radio for America is still going, huh? [00:52:15] Speaker B: Did not know. [00:52:15] Speaker C: Yeah. And also at this point, another thing, when he walks in, there's some kind of classical music playing. It was from a BBC radio to audio drama called the Archers. And it's meant to signify kind of boring, sedate life kind of thing. And it's meant to show Michael Kane coming back into home outside of all the spy stuff, which is something I know would have been missed on the majority of audiences that aren't from England. [00:52:36] Speaker B: Didn'T get that at all. Yeah. [00:52:39] Speaker C: There's lots of little context clues here and there. You just think it's like kind of background radio because there's not even any voice acting in the clip, it's just the theme tune to it. There's loads of little things like this, which I love, which I knew that some people wouldn't quite rightly, we'd have no reason to understand. Right. [00:52:53] Speaker B: Yep. [00:52:54] Speaker A: The code phrase Colonel Gaddafi on the radio, it made me wonder, what if they had to report a news story about Colonel Gaddafi. [00:53:01] Speaker B: Right, yeah, breaking news. [00:53:03] Speaker A: But Christian, to remind you of the code freeze for D Day on the radio. [00:53:08] Speaker B: Oh, yes. [00:53:09] Speaker A: Do you have a memorized like. I do? [00:53:11] Speaker B: I do not. [00:53:11] Speaker A: The long sobbing of the violins of autumn. [00:53:14] Speaker B: That's right. [00:53:16] Speaker A: With a monotonous, languorous. [00:53:18] Speaker B: Oh, man. [00:53:19] Speaker A: So, Chris, the reason why I say this is because Chris and I volunteered at the spy museum. And there's a World War two section where it's a recurring video clip where they play that. So we just hear it over and over and over again. [00:53:32] Speaker C: Oh, boy. I feel for you that you've, like, remembered it. I also feel for Christian, who's clearly trying hard to block it out. [00:53:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I did. I did recently even, like, I was stationed there for a spy camp thing where I volunteered and I was like, they had me start in the world war two part. And then once I was sure that all of the kids were following me, I was supposed to move around. So I was waiting there for a while to them. So I was like, alright, I'm gonna pretend to be reading this newspaper, which I brought as a prop, and just completely block out the video. Irina gives Ross the folded note. And then here's where I got a goldeneye flash forward. [00:54:19] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:54:20] Speaker B: Because arena, there's a timer that said was at two. And when Ross isn't looking, she sets it back to zero. Which reminded me, of course, of Alec Trevelyan. God didn't give me this face. It was you setting the timers for three minutes instead of six. [00:54:34] Speaker A: Yeah, he was running into timers. [00:54:37] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing as well. This entire film, like octopussy, like they. The entire time watching this film, I had Roger Moore's. I'm more concerned about an atomic bomb going off in an american nuclear base. I had that going through my head the entire time of this film. [00:54:50] Speaker A: Does he say that in octopusy? I haven't seen that one. [00:54:53] Speaker C: Yeah, straight to our steven. [00:54:54] Speaker B: Oh, man. Oh, yes. That's right. Oh, wow. That may or may not be one that we'll record in a bit. [00:55:04] Speaker A: We might get onto that soon. [00:55:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:55:07] Speaker A: So what's your name? What's the Russian? [00:55:09] Speaker B: Yurina. Irina. [00:55:12] Speaker A: Irina. [00:55:13] Speaker B: Just like. [00:55:14] Speaker A: Okay. [00:55:14] Speaker B: Just like Zukovsky's girlfriend. [00:55:16] Speaker A: So she sets the bomb to zero time. So it's like, oh, are they going to set up a thing where they kill each other? You know, because he's been killing everybody so far. [00:55:25] Speaker B: Yeah. So, like here, when he gets the folded note from Irina, he uses, like, this site, like, a way to unencode the message. And then burns the note and then seduces arena. [00:55:38] Speaker A: Yeah. After he gets the instructions to kill her, which is interesting. [00:55:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. [00:55:43] Speaker C: Oh, the scene where they're shredding the faces, was that before or after this? [00:55:48] Speaker B: That's after this. It's not too far from now, but it is. Yeah, it is after that. So we also see that Preston is still watching the cafe. As all this is going through. There's been sort of cutbacks in. Was just still watching. Ivan hasn't left. And then post coitus, Irina sees the imprint of the note that Ross had decoded, which in, like, you know, big block letter says, kill her. [00:56:16] Speaker C: That was, like, full fisted, holding the pen, scraping it down. [00:56:22] Speaker A: Very dramatic, though. I appreciate that. [00:56:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And like, Irina tries to either. I'm not sure if she's trying to stop him or trying to tell him that, oh, the bomb's gonna kill you. But before she does, she shot through the pillow, like, in the chest. [00:56:37] Speaker A: Yikes. Yikes. [00:56:39] Speaker B: Kinda had an inkling that she was gonna die, but I wasn't expecting it right there, so that surprised me. So Preston finally gets some backup that we find out the cafe is owned by some greek cypriots who entered the country in 78 and have been deep cover ever since. But now that his backup's here, he can finally get some sleep. [00:56:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And I like how he's got that cot in the surveillance room and then just immediately goes to sleep. It's like I didn't look it up for spy fact versus fiction. But that's, I think, in burn notice they talk about how that's something spies need to be able to do, like, immediately. [00:57:10] Speaker B: I feel like it's mentioned somewhere in the Fleming bonds too, probably, that he can just sort of fall asleep immediately. [00:57:16] Speaker C: Yeah. What he does is that he sits down and he memorizes a clock of the time he needs to wake up and that sends him off. [00:57:23] Speaker A: Nice. That's great. [00:57:25] Speaker B: Yeah. If only. If only. Of course, once he's asleep, that's when Ivan actually leaves the cafe. So they go to wake up Preston. His team wants to go after him, after Ivan, but Preston tells him, let them go. He's only a small fry. The real prize is what's in the cafe. [00:57:42] Speaker A: That's right. [00:57:43] Speaker B: We see Ross, you know, packing up all of Irina's stuff. And then we see a newscast about a rally to protest the american base there. And people watching the cafe say that there's someone standing at the end of the road, tall, well built, carrying something, moving towards the cafe. Of course, this is Ross. [00:58:02] Speaker A: Of course. So, yeah, I do like how things eventually start to come together. Towards the end of the movie, the. [00:58:07] Speaker B: Thing that he's carrying is a motorcycle helmet. So there's. All right, we gotta find his motorcycle, put some sort of homing device on it. And this is where Garroshin gets word that everything is in place and he's shredding all the files. [00:58:18] Speaker C: That's it. Thank you. [00:58:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Is he doing this for deniability if he gets caught or I. Why is he doing this? [00:58:27] Speaker A: I wouldn't presume. Just to cover his tracks. [00:58:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:29] Speaker C: Just getting rid of all evidence. And also it's a very dramatic way to show that they're cutting ties. [00:58:37] Speaker B: So Ross leaves the cafe on his motorcycle. Preston goes after him in the van. One of the others is gonna lead a team to go into the cafe. They go into Suffolk, where Ross has stopped, and they, like, burst into the garage where his signal stopped, but it's only his helmet and motorcycle there. [00:58:56] Speaker A: Things are going to be getting a little bit more exciting here. [00:58:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And as they leave, see a bunch of ambulances go past them. Apparently there's a big accident and the road's blocked. Ross is stuck in the traffic. This is. And Preston and Barry. That's what his name is. [00:59:11] Speaker C: There we go. [00:59:12] Speaker B: I knew I had him in the notes here somewhere. Barry, also stuck in the traffic, starts walking up the road, looking at all the cars. Thinks he spotted Ross, but it is a different, young, attractive man. [00:59:22] Speaker A: There you go. [00:59:24] Speaker B: And he sees Ross just as Ross is wave through to go through the, you know, where the accident is taking place. And he has, like, Barry pull the van out, like, smashing into the cars before and after him and pick him up, run through the checkpoint because now he's got the make and color of the car, which is the Ford. [00:59:43] Speaker C: What was it? [00:59:43] Speaker B: Xr three. [00:59:44] Speaker C: Yeah, I think he runs and goes. It's him. Blue xr three. That's it. The thing I like as well, and british films of this era did this perfectly when it was low budget and you don't have many action scenes. Suddenly a transit van crashing into cars in front. Crashing into cars behind. Looks and feels really dramatic. It's incredible how because we've had so little ott, especially vehicle stuff going on. When that happens, you're like, oh, and impossible film. You wouldn't look at this twice. [01:00:10] Speaker B: No. Yeah, so they like, I like how, yeah, they're drive past the. Through the checkpoint and, like, accidentally. Accidentally or on purpose go down a hill. It wasn't actually sure. [01:00:21] Speaker C: I'd say on purpose is avoiding action. And it was a happy accident. [01:00:25] Speaker B: There you go. There we go. [01:00:26] Speaker A: Happy little accident. [01:00:28] Speaker B: Take an alternate route through a bike tunnel and, like, almost hit a bunch of people there. [01:00:33] Speaker A: You guys noticed the protesters had tiki torches? [01:00:37] Speaker B: I did not. [01:00:38] Speaker A: Some of them did. [01:00:39] Speaker B: That was kind of funny. Ooh. Hmm. As they're driving, they see the sign for RAF Baywaters, realize that's the american nuclear base. That must be where he's headache. So they drive there. They get stuck in the press in the protest. So Preston goes on foot and, like, sees Ross closing his blinds in the court in the quarter window. So Preston approaches a building across the street, rings a doorbell, says he's come to read the meter. Uh huh. [01:01:10] Speaker C: Really weird line. [01:01:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And so he's talking with the neighbors, starts asking questions about Ross. They reveal that he's been there two months. But a woman came by the other day who they think it's his wife. And I like how Preston, like, just to get them to leave the place, lies to them straight out and says, oh, well, that's not his wife. He killed his wife and his three children with a shotgun. [01:01:32] Speaker C: I double took you. And that was like, wait, what? [01:01:35] Speaker A: Yeah, they, like, freak out, which is kind of funny. [01:01:38] Speaker B: And you see them, like, drive away too, like, ah, we're out of here. [01:01:41] Speaker C: Staring at the window. [01:01:45] Speaker B: So Ross is, you know, continuing to wait for the 09:00 news. He's staring at the bomb. Preston calls it in and asks for backup and calls Sir Nigel. And it's just a waiting game now. [01:01:58] Speaker A: But why do you guys think they were waiting? [01:02:00] Speaker C: I agree. [01:02:01] Speaker A: Because they were afraid he was going to set it off if they went in. [01:02:04] Speaker B: Maybe. I don't know. [01:02:05] Speaker C: I figured it was first waiting for, like, you know, backup, but then they were waiting too. And I'm like, just going to detain the guy? Yeah. I'm not really sure. [01:02:13] Speaker A: Like, ring the doorbell and when he comes to the door, grab him. [01:02:16] Speaker C: Ha. Surprise. [01:02:17] Speaker A: I don't know. What do they think was going to happen? I don't know, but, yeah. [01:02:22] Speaker B: So Barry arrives to assist Preston. And Preston hears back from Irvine. We see some helicopters going over water under and, like, around and under bridges. Are we supposed to know where this is? Are these. Are these landmarks? [01:02:36] Speaker C: It's a local landmark for that location. It's not one that's famous with all of Britain. [01:02:42] Speaker B: Okay. Like, so they land, like, is this, like, at the american air base? Where are they land? I have no idea. So I was just like, it didn't have any context for where this is supposed to be. But men rushed out of the copters, and I noticed the copters, I think they had the RAF logo on them. So I was okay, these are. Yeah, these are basically his backup. You know, they load into a car. The cars. We find out they're an assault team, and they meet with Preston. They get the low down. And I, like, there's this hesitation when they find out that the bomb is atomic, of course. [01:03:12] Speaker A: I hope so. [01:03:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So, hey, there's why they were waiting because. Because it's an atomic bomb. So Ross is still wearing. Still waiting. And I notice he was like, he's wearing an epaulette shirt. That's interesting. That's a choice. I always wonder, are we gonna see him, like, in a. Is part of the plan? Like, you know, is he gonna be dressed up in a military uniforms or escape or something? I want. Why are you wearing that? That seems like a choice. [01:03:41] Speaker C: All of, like, the promotional material has him in uniform. Like, if you look at all of the posters, Brosnan is constantly in military stuff. And he wears it just for that one scene at the beginning. [01:03:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Which he looks. He looks good at it. [01:03:54] Speaker C: I thought at the beginning of the film, when you first. When he first introduced him, he had very much goldeneye, 64 cartridge vibes, like that. Specifically where the eyes are specifically angular for some reason. [01:04:04] Speaker B: You had that. The beginning of this and maybe an extended cheek or. [01:04:09] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I didn't realize. I thought he was younger than 34 during filming this. I didn't realize he's 34 years old. Kane was only 20 years older than him. [01:04:19] Speaker A: Wow. [01:04:20] Speaker B: Huh? 34. Wow. [01:04:22] Speaker C: It means I've got three years to look back. [01:04:27] Speaker B: Did I look that good four years ago? I don't think so. [01:04:29] Speaker C: You look that good now. [01:04:31] Speaker A: Hard to compare it to Bruce Bronson, too. [01:04:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it's true. That is an ideal to live up to. So I don't know. Anyway, so he senses that something is amiss. He turns on the radio, looks out the window, but doesn't see anything. And the assault team is watching one of their men sneaking over as, like, a scout of the lead from the assault team or watching the van approaching the house. And as they're, like, moving up, there's a kid looking for their cat, and they're like, stop. Come on, Ginger. [01:05:02] Speaker A: Tim plans for everything. [01:05:05] Speaker B: Oh. And then. So they're like. They're like, we need to do something. We are exposed. So they, like, the scout grabs the kid. [01:05:14] Speaker A: That's great. He, like, kidnaps the kid, basically. [01:05:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And he's, like, even shouting, let me go. Let me go. Ross is listening. He finally hears Gaddafi mentioned and goes up to the attic. And once he does that, Preston could see him moving. So Preston goes over the house. Ross, you know, inserts the key to activate the thing, and he's, like, has sense or something. Something's still amiss. So he's, like, trying to open the door for the timer, but sees that it's locked. So he goes over to Irina's dead body, which has, like, you know, the key on a chain. [01:05:49] Speaker C: I think the last thing she said was the key before he shot her, right? [01:05:52] Speaker B: Oh, that's right. Yeah. So he opens it and sees that timer is set to zero. So he hesitates. [01:05:58] Speaker C: I know we talked a lot about robot Brosnan this, but his, like, kind of look back and the eyes when he realizes what's going on is brilliant. Really well done. [01:06:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:09] Speaker A: I would have loved some more, like, reactions. [01:06:12] Speaker C: I think the fact we saw so something speaks volumes. Like, you kind of see the portrayal crossing his eyes there and the fact this is, like, obviously, it's a love for his country with that sort of jazz. Like, I felt like, because it's been so. Well, not understated, but so robotic as we've used so far. I feel like he says a lot in the fact that we actually see something. [01:06:28] Speaker B: Yeah. With that moment's hesitation, though, the assault team moves in. Brosden takes out the first one pretty easily. I'm like. I'm kind of torn because, you know, when I see a gunfight, with Pierce Brosnan, I'm not. Root for him. [01:06:44] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I mean, he's supposed to be the terminator, right? He's supposed to be scary. So I'm glad he does a pretty good job. It's a pretty good fight, but, yeah. [01:06:52] Speaker B: He takes him out and then. I love this shot when Preston emerges from the dark. [01:06:56] Speaker A: Yeah, that was cool. [01:06:57] Speaker B: It's good. [01:06:58] Speaker C: He emerges from the dark knight. Hey. [01:07:05] Speaker A: I also wanted to mention, I don't know, I might have not been paying attention, but when he's walking around and you see Aileena's dead body in the bathtub, that felt very Alfred Hitchcock. [01:07:16] Speaker B: Yes. [01:07:17] Speaker A: I don't know, you guys. I thought it was super creepy. I like July. [01:07:21] Speaker B: Like, he's just, like, washing his face and the body's just right there. [01:07:25] Speaker C: He's just like, oh, yeah, I did that. [01:07:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:07:30] Speaker A: So there's the fight. [01:07:32] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a pretty good fight. And, like, he gets knocked around, but then he knocks, knocks out Preston and is about to press the button when he's, like, kicked away by Preston. And the assault team comes in. Like, Preston's like, don't shoot me, it's me. And then they, like, just really offhandedly just sort of kill Ross. [01:07:53] Speaker A: Yeah. This was a part of the conspiracy, right? [01:07:55] Speaker B: That's the reveal. Sorry, boss orders. [01:07:58] Speaker C: Yeah, I liked as well that it seemed like, yeah, Brosnan would have beaten the shit out of Kane. It was just circumstance that kind of gave Kane the upper hand in that situation, which I like because there's no way you can pretend that Michael Caine is going to be able to take on Piers Brosnan in that moment. [01:08:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:16] Speaker C: I remember watching this thing where they shoot Ross, like, even sitting in my chair last night, I did just. I kind of go, like, what? That was a nice surprise. That was a good introduction to the rest of the twist of the film. [01:08:29] Speaker B: So Preston is driving to Bernard Heming's funeral. His kid is waiting in the car, says it just be a minute. So we see Irvine get up and walk towards something. And in my mind, I was like, oh, he sees Preston. He's going over to talk to Preston instead. We find that Irvine is meeting with Karpov and Dun dun. [01:08:48] Speaker A: I don't love this reveal, by the way. [01:08:51] Speaker B: They were roommates. [01:08:53] Speaker A: I feel like there was enough going on that we didn't need, like, a conspiracy on top of everything else. [01:08:58] Speaker B: Preston finds them, wants to know why Ross was killed, why was he executed on Irvine's order, recognizes Karpov and starts to put stuff together and ask, you know, asks Karpov, why did you send Ivan with such an obviously forged passport? You torched your entire operation. He says, I think you gave us Ross in exchange for evidence to destroy Gorovshin. With that, you might just end up as the next head of the KGB. [01:09:24] Speaker A: Which, of course, was exactly the idea. [01:09:26] Speaker C: To which he responds as the head of the next. The next head of the KGB. [01:09:31] Speaker B: But, yeah. So Preston is fed up with them playing their spy game, so he leaves. [01:09:35] Speaker A: Chews him out a little bit. [01:09:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Karpov, you know, is wanting willy talk. Preston, approaching the car, sees that his son isn't in the car, and you see him get worried for a second. And I was worried, too, but no, he's just playing nearby in a wall, and they're gonna go home, and there's cheerful music with this weirdly happy ending. [01:09:54] Speaker C: Yeah. In the book, they knew that he couldn't talk, and he ended up getting a lucrative job in a bank for whatever extra information that provides. [01:10:03] Speaker B: Interesting. But, yeah. With that, our movie ends a weird. [01:10:06] Speaker C: Credit sequence where the pictures kind of slide off. [01:10:09] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like a. It's like a PowerPoint presentation. [01:10:13] Speaker C: It just needed a gradient of two colors in the background. [01:10:20] Speaker B: Spy fact versus spy fiction. [01:10:25] Speaker A: Okay, so with the movie recap over, now it's time for our spy fact versus fiction. This is where we talk a little bit about where the movie is incorrect or where it was close to the truth. So, Chris, as our guest, we usually ask the guest to go first, if you would like. Do you have anything? [01:10:42] Speaker C: So, spy fact versus spy fiction. I've got the obvious one of Philby, which I don't really want to use, seeing as we kind of know that one's a little teeny bit, obviously. [01:10:53] Speaker B: Or if there's any other obvious britishisms that you got really right or really wrong. [01:10:58] Speaker C: Yeah, these are my notes from the filming, and this is my research as well. And I've got something in there. I've just not organized it via anything apart from chronology. I think I'm probably going to start with the whole NATO alliance stuff at this point and communicate between the two services. Well, I say the two services, all the different countries. Do I give it a choice of fact or fiction and make you guess, or do I just say what the actual. [01:11:25] Speaker B: You can just tell us? I mean, although that'd be fun. We haven't. That'd be a fun twist. [01:11:30] Speaker C: I can definitely do many british facts or fictions. [01:11:34] Speaker B: Yes. [01:11:34] Speaker C: The communication between all of it was not as presented in the film. For example, the fact that people can just meet up in these situations and, you know, all that sort of stuff sort of happening. It's the entire time. Even countries that aren't in NATO are being communicated with directly by the countries in NATO at all times. It's not, hey, this is our playground. You can't come in. And that kind of stood out to me massively because there are communication, like there's communications between NATO and Russia all the damn time trying to present it as, oh, this is our exclusive club. And that. That stood out to me pretty significantly. [01:12:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:12:08] Speaker C: Mi five stuff we talked a little bit about earlier, obviously, mi five being the kind of internal stuff versus mi six, and the fact that even wasn't a particularly said, all of this was an Mi five operation, although I feel like it kind of. Like it tried to lean into something a little bit more. I felt in the few moments which, like, it should have been presented more as like an internal operation, which this absolutely was the entire time. Also, this is what I need to do some research on. This is a question I have. How significant were american air bases in the UK at this time? Because I think if there were american air bases, they wouldn't be next to a housing estate. Granted, I know the housing estate was mainly for american offices. I don't think you'd be able to watch and look over a barbed wire fence. I mean, the UK is cramped, but it's not that cramped. So I think there's a slight inaccuracy of how it's presented there, obviously, for the convenience of the film. But, yeah, I think the Americans, when it comes to all people that have army bases in the United Kingdom, I think the USA are one of the strictest on security. [01:12:59] Speaker B: So apparently, because I did find out a little bit about that, I was kind of curious. Like, apparently they filmed it at RAF Upper Hayford. RAF Bay Waters is apparently not a real thing, but it was based on RAF bentwaters. [01:13:15] Speaker A: Okay. [01:13:16] Speaker B: Which is a former Royal Air Force station, but. And it was used by the RAF during the second World War and by the US during the Cold War. [01:13:27] Speaker C: Okay. [01:13:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:29] Speaker C: And also the last one I have is that in the book, and I've referenced the book a lot, but I do like looking into the original literature in the book. The british side of this was meant to coincide with the Labour rise to power after the conservative government. And of course, the labor party at the time were considered to be overly socialist, which, while it also would have been good for the British in the short term, would have also been good for the Russians in the long term at the same time. So a significant plot of the book is that this would provide the Labour party power, which would then change the scope of the international politics at the time. [01:14:00] Speaker B: Thanks for all that, Chris. All right, so, Zach, you want to go first or should I go first? [01:14:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I can go next. [01:14:07] Speaker B: Cool. [01:14:07] Speaker A: So the first is Wikipedia treaty on the non proliferation of nuclear weapons, which is obviously the treaty. I don't know why they didn't name it in the movie. So it has three pillars, not three protocols. And the three pillars are non proliferation, disarmament and the right to peacefully use nuclear tanks. So there's that. And then I also found on the Wikipedia for the fourth protocol itself some differences from the novels that we have not already mentioned. So the film opens with the killing of Kim Philby, who has already planned the operation, but in the book he stays alive and remains a key figure throughout it. There's more detail about the press investigation about South Africa. [01:14:55] Speaker B: Hmm. [01:14:56] Speaker A: The character of the assembler, that is Alina, is a man in the book, although the surname is the same and he gets his neck broken in a forest rather than being shot in bed. In the novel, soviet sailor is attacked by chavs or skinheads again. [01:15:12] Speaker B: Oh, so that must have been like. That scene in the tube was probably like a nod towards that. [01:15:17] Speaker A: Yes, I would guess, yeah. So he's attacked by them and then he commits suicide by jumping from the hospital. [01:15:24] Speaker B: Ooh, yeah. [01:15:25] Speaker A: That's interesting. [01:15:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:27] Speaker A: In the book, the story about Berenson is linked to the atomic plot because it provides a way for Irvine to send a false message to Karpaugh suggesting the operation is blown. [01:15:36] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [01:15:37] Speaker A: So it does tie back to that. Sir Irvine is a much more positively presented character in the book. He supports Preston because he genuinely respects his abilities. Has Ross kill, dondrecut the KGB without going to war and then arranges for Preston to get a lucrative private sector work so he can win sole custody of his young son. What a nice guy. So that's what I have first by fact, justice fiction. [01:16:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:16:01] Speaker B: Well, I've got the obvious one that we'd talk about. That Kim Philby, like we said, was still alive at this time, but he died of heart failure in Moscow in 1998, where he was given a hero's funeral. [01:16:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Even though from my understanding from the spy museum is that he was sort of isolated and lonely and people didn't care about him. [01:16:21] Speaker B: He wasn't given anything to do, really, by the KGB. And he was definitely. It's definitely the case of, you know, while he was alive, he was a liability to them, but after he was dead, they could celebrate him. [01:16:33] Speaker C: It's interesting, I remember that from the spy factory. From the spy factory. Spy museum as well. The fact is, like, actually when he got there. Fritty crap. [01:16:41] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. [01:16:43] Speaker A: That's what he gets for being a comedy. [01:16:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, man. So, yes, I think I've got is the illegals program that is mentioned as from Wikipedia. It is a network of sleeper agents under unofficial cover. There was now in recent memory, which is. Wow, 14 years ago is recent memory. There was an investigation by the FBI which culminated in the rest of ten agents on June 27, 2010, followed by a prisoner exchange between Russia and the US on July 9, 2010. Of course, the most infamous of these ten illegals would be Anna Chapman, you know, because she had a very attractive, you know, mug shot. But of course, there have been other, you know, other illegal programs as well, because, you know, dates back to even before this movie. Again, mentioning the spy museum. They do have all of the handcuffs that were used to arrest all of the ten who were captured as part of Operation Ghost stories. [01:17:42] Speaker A: That's right. [01:17:42] Speaker B: Okay, so I did find something about the title of, you know, the fourth protocol. So, as we talked about the treat, the title refers to the 1968 treaty on non Proliferation of nuclear weapons, which, in the world of the novel, contained four secret protocols. The first three kind of were useless, but the fourth of which was meant to prohibit non conventional deliveries of nuclear weapons. That is, by means other than being dropped from an aircraft or carried on ballistic missiles. This included postal service or being assembled in secret close to the target before being detonated. That is what the titular fourth protocol. [01:18:18] Speaker C: Is, I will say. When I told Melanie I was watching the fourth protocol for this podcast, she asked me if I'd seen the first three. [01:18:27] Speaker A: Nice. Yeah, that's a joke about the 39 steps. Do you have to one through 38 to get it? [01:18:36] Speaker B: Lastly, I have something about the method of cryptography that Brosnan uses when he gets the message to kill her. [01:18:45] Speaker A: Right. [01:18:46] Speaker B: So it's called a grail cipher, which is a technique used for encrypting a plain text by writing onto a sheet of paper through a pierced sheet of cardboard, or similar. The earliest use of this is by Jacopo Silvestri in 1526. They have a great example of this in the spy museum, where you have a message and you slide grill over it and it just picks out just certain words. [01:19:12] Speaker C: As a teacher, this is actually a method I've used in some odd sessions here and there. So any aspiring teachers out there try this as a lesson. The kids love it. [01:19:20] Speaker B: Interesting. It also reminded me, so do you scan trons in your. At your grade level? No, but I had a teacher, rather than just doing the, you know, running them through a machine, he just had a grill that he would put over his scantron. So he's like, oh, okay. So that. That's wrong. That's wrong. That's wrong. [01:19:38] Speaker C: Wow. [01:19:39] Speaker B: I was like, oh, that's. That's efficient and fast, rather than sliding them through all. The whole thing. Yeah. [01:19:45] Speaker C: Thankfully that all the kids in my school use laptops, so they just send it to me via email. [01:19:49] Speaker B: All right. Yeah, that would be. Yeah. Huh. I wonder if anyone uses scantrons anymore. [01:19:54] Speaker C: I think I'm gonna bring it back. [01:19:59] Speaker B: All right. But, yeah, that's what I have for spy fact versus spy fiction. Favorite quotes. [01:20:10] Speaker A: All right, so next we have our favorite quotes from the movie. Chris is our guest. Would you like to go first? [01:20:16] Speaker C: Well, I've actually already mentioned a few. I mean, first of all, like acting head sunshine, and then the. I think that's followed up with, again, Michael Caine is the only person who can say the f word with an a instead of you. It's about time they put you in a Fakken museum, which is right at the very end. I don't know if you need to bleep that. I will retake it if you need to. I also like Michael Caine as an actor anyway. I like his delivery of don't shoot, it's me. As if that helped. Yeah, that and the running back to the transit and going, it's him. Blue xr three. Just, it's all kind of action quotes. I quite enjoyed it. Came to like deeper quotes. The I met someone, or did they meet you? And also like the. You didn't strengthen weaker you, Nate, you. We didn't strengthen NATO. You weakened it in that entire scene as well. The delivery I quite enjoyed. Enjoy. Those are the. My. Those ones at least I wrote down here that and start the new year with a bang, which was just because that was such a bond pun. [01:21:25] Speaker B: Yep. [01:21:25] Speaker C: Yeah, those ones I wrote down. [01:21:27] Speaker B: All right, Zach, what do you got? [01:21:28] Speaker A: I don't have a lot. I didn't find the movie to be especially quotable. Like I mentioned, I like when the people introduce themselves as chairman of the KGB, as the director general. [01:21:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:21:38] Speaker A: I like when Ned Beattie says, stay well, friend, and stay silent. When one of the Americans says dystrovia, that's rusky for up yours. [01:21:47] Speaker B: That was one of mine. Yep. [01:21:48] Speaker A: Kind of looks at him. But my favorite one, I don't know why I think it's cool, because it's not that cool of a line. But I still really liked it was when Michael Caine says, a long way to go for pizza. I think we'll join him. [01:22:01] Speaker B: Nice. So I liked when Michael Caine said, you know, when they're through the big, you know, Van Chase. He says, who signed for this van? You did. [01:22:12] Speaker C: Also, have you noticed that guy grins for the rest of until the scene cuts out? He's got a grin on his face the entire time. [01:22:18] Speaker B: Oh, man. I also like that Strovia. That's rusky for up yours. I also like how Brosden. There's a sub. There's a subtle thing where, you know, you hear the Americans say it, and then you hear Brosnan and he pronounces it better. Oh, will they pick up on that? Nope, because they're too drunk. [01:22:36] Speaker A: That's right. [01:22:38] Speaker C: There's also a chance that's the assumption of the british pronunciation versus the american. [01:22:44] Speaker B: So my favorite quote, though, is actually, it's continuation of the one that Chris had, which says, well, you know, it's my prerogative of head of this country sick service acting as sunshine, but if you ask me, you're acting like a complete osso. [01:23:02] Speaker C: But again, Kane makes it work. [01:23:05] Speaker B: It does. So good. So ratings. [01:23:14] Speaker A: All right, so now it's time for ratings. On a scale of one to ten martinis, one being Avengers 1998, and ten being better than no time to die or mission impossible. Ghost protocol. How would we rate the fourth protocol? Chris is our guest. You want to go first? One more time? [01:23:29] Speaker B: All right, but before you start, I want to clarify what Zach's saying. The reason he mentions no time to die is because one of our guests did give it a ten martinis. Neither of us did not. But I saw your laugh. [01:23:47] Speaker A: Oh, you don't agree. That's another conversation. [01:23:50] Speaker B: We could get into that another time. [01:23:53] Speaker C: I have always been a fan of british films and tv. From 1960 to 1990 anyway, pretty much the Cold War era, and lots of tv and stuff from the british side. Lots of it is over the top action. Which is why, when it comes to something that's a bit more downplayed and a slow burn, I really do appreciate it. There's quite a few films I think of immediately, one being the hard way, starring Patrick McGooin and Walter Van Cleef, I think as well, from a similar time period. And it's a very slow burn film. And I think it's representative of what some british filmmakers wanted to make at the time. As I said, when I first clicked onto this, I was expecting it to be an action film. I mean, the whole post has got Michael Caine with a gun, Pierce Brosnan in uniform, and I was actually quietly impressed with the fact it turned out to be a spy film. Now I know, obviously, the slow burn aspect will be irritating to some, and it was a real slow burnt. I've watched enough of these films that I can really appreciate the fact that it's just building tension up the entire time. And I think this one film can do fantastically is build situational tension. Building the bomb, which could have been a nothing scene, was a standout. Him walking down a traffic queue trying to find the right person is fantastic tension. And as I mentioned previously, the fact you get the small relief of a Ford transit van backing into a car, smashing into it, that sort of thing, it amplifies, simplifies the significance. And I think that does give it somewhat, a little bit more believability than an average spy film from this era may do. I think my greatest comparison is probably the IP Chris file and the Harry Palmer series, which, of course, was bond with a more like, you know, grounded look. I think this is the more grounded version of the Harry Palmer series, where, granted, some bits are a little bit farce, cool and waze. This seemed like a genuine story. And that's akin to Frederick Forsyth, in my opinion. He's second to John le Carre. It comes to spy novels at this time, and I think it was really well realized. At no point was I distracted, at no point did I lose focus. Every single thing was building up to something. So that gained my attention. I felt like the cinematography was good, like, very good to watch the performances. Granted, there were too many characters. The performances of the main characters were very good. And while, yes, obviously, Brosnan was quite robotic, he is the villain in. In this film and he's meant to be shown as somebody who is cold. And I think a cut back at the end where he realized he's been betrayed. I think it's worth the wait. It's a two hour film. It's a long film, especially for the mid 1980s for british producers. But I really, really enjoyed this. I think it's. No, it's not ten out of ten. The previous director, the director has. I think it's. Whittaker has done a ten out of 10th film, and that is the long, Good Friday. This was a thoroughly enjoyable film and is a solid eight out of ten for me. I mean, without Piers Brosnan and Michael Caine, I'm not sure if it would still be that grade. But there's so many bits about it, and, yeah, going into a film expecting over the top action sequences and instead getting things about handlers drops, all this stuff. It caught me off guard, and I really enjoyed it. I've already recommended this to three people since watching it last night. So, yeah, I think it's a good representation of Britain at this time. It's a good british film, as in somewhat understated in certain parts and preserving the budget, shall we say. But, no, I really leaned into this. It really struck a chord with me. It was a very, very good film for me. [01:27:16] Speaker B: All right. All right, Zach, I'm very curious. [01:27:20] Speaker A: So, yeah, I didn't care for this movie so much. I understand where Chris is coming from, that it was building tension, but I didn't feel like that tension was building until pretty much the end. I felt like most of it was pretty slow. And I liked Michael Caine's character, but he wasn't that deep, and Pierce had no character. He's just like a robot. Like I keep saying, there wasn't really a story with a lot of good twists and turns, even the murders of his fellow Russians. You start to see that coming after a while. So I understand where you guys are coming from, but I didn't personally like it that much, so I'm gonna give it a four and a half. [01:27:58] Speaker B: Ooh, wow. All right, interesting, interesting. So I'm definitely in the middle of you two. I didn't. There. Obviously, there was a lot of the things that, being an american, I didn't really pick up on, but I did still definitely appreciate, like, all right, you actually had some seeming real, real world trade craft going on here. For example, you know, not chasing after Ivan and actually going after what? The prize, the actual prize. And, you know, it felt. I did feel the tension, unlike Zach, that they're building to all this. And I also like Zach. I did like Brosden's performance here. I mean, I know, you know, it was refreshing to him, not beefe the, you know, smooth, charming, like, how could having. Because usually he's just oozing with charm and charisma, and so for him to actually turn that down and just be this cold killer, I liked it. And I like Michael Caine. He's just always. He's always enjoyable. I mean, although, you know, and it's occurring to me, I think the first thing that I. In memory that I watched him in was as Austin Powers dad and gold member. So I was like that already. That endeared me to him because I do like that movie. But then you going back and seeing some of his other stuff, like, wow, he's actually can actually play a good role. And of course, him in the Batman movies is great, too. But, yeah. So I think my point of reference for him around this time would probably be like, yeah, the man who would be king, which is still probably about ten years earlier than that. But I. Yeah, so I enjoyed him in this. I also just really enjoyed, you know, all of the bit players who. Or like, people I recognize from other things, like Julian Glover, Michael go, or what's his name, Ned Beatty. And I was like, all right, this is a british film. I'm trying to count. Has any of these been in. Have any of these folks been in a potter? I don't think so. [01:30:02] Speaker A: In a pottere? [01:30:03] Speaker B: Harry Potter? [01:30:04] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm surprised Michael Caine never did. [01:30:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think so. Nothing. I know enough of them that I can remember. I was like, all right, well, it's. You know, that. That's. There's that joke. It's like, all right, all of the uk actors, they've either been in a Harry Potter or Game of Thrones. So we have one for that. We've got Julian Glover. But, yeah, so with all that being said, I'm gonna give it a seven out of ten martinis because I did enjoy this film a lot and it's not, you know, it's. But it is not up there in the best of the best, but it is still a fun, enjoyable film. Very good. [01:30:37] Speaker A: Well, thank you for joining us, Chris. Do you have anything you would like to plug before we move along? [01:30:42] Speaker C: No, I mean, it's been my absolute pleasure. Thank you ever so much for having me on. I mean, if you're in the DC era, come and join me and Christian at a capital royale event. I'm on instagram only as british bond addict, where I do various bond things in daily show off. My collection of ties in which I'm on currently 55. The unique ties. [01:31:01] Speaker B: I was about to ask you, how many ties do you own? Because I've, like, I feel like I've been, you know, following you for a while. Like, I don't know that I've seen many repeats. [01:31:08] Speaker C: Yeah, I've done tie the day, as in I do a new tie every single day, kind of, to catalog how many I have. I did 55 today. I've got at least 30 left. I've also got 80 more in England that I haven't bought over yet. [01:31:19] Speaker B: Wow. [01:31:21] Speaker C: The thing is, it's thrift shops. I go to a thrift shop. I go to a thrift shop and find the most unique ties for, like, $2. So it's like, screw it, I'll buy six. Yes. [01:31:31] Speaker B: I used to be big into bow ties, so, yeah, I would do that, too. I'd go to, like, thrift shops and stuff like that. And then people would just start gifting me bow ties for my birthday, I think. So just grow. [01:31:42] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. I mean, exactly something. I've got a tie here I haven't worn yet, which was a gift from a child. And it's a card with literally my teacher name on it. [01:31:51] Speaker B: Nice. And a con. That's cool. [01:31:52] Speaker C: I'm all about that. But, you know, just to just wrap up my point of view. Yeah. Nothing really to promote, just to say thank you ever so much for having me on. This has been great. This film has been on my list. I remember downloading this for my flight to the States back in 2022. I never got around to it. So to actually watch it has been wonderful. So thank you both for giving me that excuse and for giving me the opportunity to talk about it. [01:32:12] Speaker A: Of course. [01:32:13] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. Glad to have you on. And thank you for pointing out all of the Britishisms that we missed because they went over our heads. [01:32:21] Speaker C: This was a very british film. This was clearly made by Brits and possibly for Brits. [01:32:29] Speaker A: Yes, that's right. Thank you, Chris, for joining us today, and thank you all for tuning in. You can find us on social media, the spy fi guys on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube, as well as our merch [email protected], dot. Until next time, I'm Zach. [01:32:43] Speaker B: And I'm Christian. [01:32:44] Speaker A: And we are the spy fi guys signing off. [01:32:52] Speaker B: Thank you for listening to the spy fi guys. If you enjoyed our podcast, please be sure to give us a five star rating on iTunes. The theme song from this podcast is mistake the Getaway by Kevin McClellan from incompetech.com. licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0. Films, books, and television shows reviewed by our podcast are the intellectual property of their respective copyright holders, and no infringement is intended. [01:33:19] Speaker A: This is a personal podcast. Any views, statements, or opinions expressed in this podcast are personal and belong solely to the participants. They do not represent those of people, institutions, or organizations that the participants may orlando. May not be associated with in a professional or personal capacity unless explicitly stated. Any views or opinions are not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company or individual. [01:33:44] Speaker B: You can find our podcast on social media at thespyfi guys on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.