"Operation Finale"

00:00:00 Speaker 1 After World War Two, the mission for justice began. 00:00:04 Speaker 1 We are the spy-fi guys and this is operation finale. 00:00:15 Speaker 1 Welcome to the spy Fi guys. 00:00:17 Speaker 1 We recover spy facts, spy fiction and everything in between. 00:00:20 Speaker 1 I'm Chris. 00:00:21 Speaker 2 And I'm Zach. 00:00:22 Speaker 1 First of all, we are back after a little little gap. 00:00:25 Speaker 1 Just just a month. 00:00:26 Speaker 2 Yeah, we are back on the reduced schedule. 00:00:29 Speaker 2 Hopefully not forever, but currently. 00:00:32 Speaker 1 Yes, and we're back covering the what movie, what year this movie come out? 00:00:36 Speaker 1 Actually I don't. 00:00:36 Speaker 1 I don't have it in front of me. 00:00:38 Speaker 2 Excellent question. The movie Operation finale from 2018. 00:00:42 Speaker 1 You know, that seems like not that long ago, but also a lifetime ago. 00:00:46 Speaker 2 That's right, so I remember seeing this with you and our buddy Sundeep who long time listeners may recall from the prisoner episode. 00:00:53 Oh, that's true. 00:00:53 Speaker 1 OK. 00:00:54 Speaker 2 I believe we saw it for free via the spy museum. 00:00:57 Speaker 1 Yeah, in my recollection it was a spy museum screening which. 00:01:01 Speaker 1 I guess we have established that we've both seen the movie before and this is our second time, or at least my second time. 00:01:07 Speaker 1 Did you see it? 00:01:07 Speaker 1 Any times in between? 00:01:09 Speaker 2 No, this was the. 00:01:09 Speaker 2 Second time as well, but I remembered it pretty well though. 00:01:13 Speaker 2 Like often is the case, what I remember the movie turned out to be different from what? 00:01:18 Speaker 2 It actually was. 00:01:20 Speaker 2 But we'll talk about that as we went through and in order to prepare for this episode, I read the book hunting it. 00:01:26 Speaker 2 And I also read Eichmann in Jerusalem by Hannah Arendt. 00:01:31 Speaker 2 So that will both factor and as we go through the movie. 00:01:34 Speaker 2 And of course by fact versus fiction at the end. 00:01:36 Speaker 1 All right, well, once you get started with our plots anubus from IMDb. 00:01:41 Speaker 2 OK, so the plot synopsis is very brief. Operation Finale 2018. A team of secret agents set out to track down the Nazi officer who masterminded the Holocaust. 00:01:53 Speaker 1 Short to the point, all right. 00:01:55 Speaker 1 So we start with a lot of tech. 00:01:57 Speaker 1 Between 1939 and 1945 the Nazis murdered over 10 million enemies of the state. Quotation mark. 00:02:05 Speaker 2 Right? 00:02:05 Speaker 1 6 million of them. 00:02:07 Speaker 1 European Jews at the end of the war, Hitler, Himmler and Goring all escaped justice by taking their own lives. 00:02:13 Speaker 1 The remaining mastermind of the Holocaust vanished and was never brought to trial. 00:02:18 Speaker 2 OK, and already we sort of have issues here about whether I can really was the mastermind of. 00:02:21 Speaker 1 OK. 00:02:23 Speaker 2 That so that's. 00:02:24 Speaker 2 Actually, an accurate way to describe him. 00:02:28 Speaker 2 Of course, the movie goes through this, but just keep that in mind as as we keep going. 00:02:30 Speaker 1 Yeah, OK. 00:02:33 Speaker 1 Alright, a decade later, most of the world had stopped wondering what became of the head of the s s Office of Jewish Affairs, Adolf Eichmann. 00:02:40 Speaker 1 So we're brought into focus with the image of a woman, and to cut with Oscar Isaac, who is playing Peter Malkin. 00:02:47 Speaker 1 He's riding a car in uniform and got a fake mustache on. 00:02:52 Speaker 1 We have a family seen at Christmas. 00:02:54 Speaker 1 You know, all seems pretty innocent, but then you notice, oh, there's swastikas on books on the shelf. 00:03:00 Speaker 2 Yeah, they didn't exactly hide it too well. 00:03:02 Speaker 1 Now this is Austria 1954. 00:03:06 Speaker 1 And, uh, Mulkin claims he's Lieutenant Dalton and. 00:03:09 Speaker 2 And these British. 00:03:10 Speaker 1 British yeah, very British accent I you know what? 00:03:13 Speaker 1 I think this is when I first realized that Oscar Isley can do like a lot of different accents and this is, you know, a different British accent than, say, the one he utilizes later years later in Moonlight. 00:03:23 Speaker 1 As a oh, I don't remember his alter in moonlight is yeah so they grabbed the husband he pulls the phone out of the out of the. 00:03:33 Speaker 1 Or phone cable out of the wall. 00:03:36 Speaker 1 Apparently his you know the guy who they grabs. 00:03:39 Speaker 1 His wife thinks he was a medic and then he notices very quickly that they grabbed the wrong guy because there's only two children, so the three. 00:03:49 Speaker 2 Right, well also I wanted to point out that they they switched the books around to hide the swastikas, so you're already kind of like well. 00:03:56 Speaker 1 No, they didn't switch them out. 00:03:57 Speaker 1 They put them in a higher place so they were less able to be seen. 00:04:01 Speaker 2 OK, the point is they hit them when they heard the knock at the door. 00:04:02 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. 00:04:05 Speaker 2 So did you actually buy that he wasn't a Nazi? 00:04:09 Speaker 2 What do you? 00:04:09 Speaker 2 Thank you. 00:04:10 Speaker 1 No, I think he's a Nazi. 00:04:11 Speaker 1 He's just the wrong Nazi. 00:04:13 Speaker 2 Well, yes, obviously that is true. 00:04:16 Speaker 1 But yeah, so Morgan realizes the wrong guy. He was a gunshot outside his running. But the other guys and his team don't care. He was a Nazi. He was probably on someone else's list. 00:04:27 Speaker 2 Someone's list. 00:04:28 Speaker 1 Yeah, so we go to an image or. 00:04:34 Speaker 1 Eichmann speaking to some other Nazis, is telling a story about how there was someone who was mistaken for him, and this is intercut with images of Jewish families in the Holocaust. 00:04:46 Speaker 1 And then we go to a credits scene which is images of Eichmann typing of his files, maps and him painting all intercut with each other, which that was a cool and then also, like you know, on the maps you have all the little markers for all the different concentration camps and red. 00:05:02 Speaker 2 Red lines 00:05:03 Speaker 1 Spring, yeah, tying them all together. 00:05:05 Speaker 2 IE Charlie Day medium. 00:05:07 Speaker 2 So I like this opening credits. 00:05:07 Speaker 1 Right? 00:05:09 Speaker 2 It's very old school movies don't do this so much anymore, at least not the big budget Hollywood movies. 00:05:16 Speaker 2 Even the the biggest budget of Hollywood movies are too good for even a title. 00:05:19 Speaker 2 They wait until the end of the movie and then they. 00:05:21 Speaker 1 Well, I mean you know who started a lot of that right? 00:05:21 Speaker 2 Put the title on. 00:05:25 Speaker 2 Wasn't Steven Spielberg? 00:05:26 Speaker 1 Now is Star Wars. 00:05:28 Speaker 2 Well, at least with Star Wars you've got. 00:05:29 Speaker 2 The title oriented. 00:05:30 Speaker 1 Yeah you do, but yeah, but there was actually a hubbub about like that. 00:05:33 Speaker 1 They didn't have credits in the opening and didn't, and they weren't until the very end. 00:05:38 Speaker 1 But anyways, we're off topic. 00:05:41 Speaker 1 We go to Buenos Aires in 1960. There's a girl in a theater watching this movie called Imitation of Life from 1959. 00:05:49 Speaker 2 Were you familiar with this movie? 00:05:50 Speaker 1 I was at first I thought it was West side. 00:05:53 Speaker 1 Story was like no that doesn't sound right. 00:05:54 Speaker 2 I also thought so yeah. 00:05:56 Speaker 1 Apparently the reason it's well part of the reason it's in here is cause the the girl in imitation of life. 00:06:01 Speaker 1 The actress in imitation of life is the mother of the director Chris Weitz. 00:06:07 Speaker 2 Ohh OK, it serves the plot really well. 00:06:10 Speaker 1 It does, it does. 00:06:10 Speaker 2 I'm just wondering. 00:06:11 Speaker 1 So the girl in the theater is Sylvia. 00:06:14 Speaker 1 She notices a few boys, a few rows behind her, making some noise, but and she thinks one of them is cute and decided to talk to him after the movie. 00:06:22 Speaker 1 OK, in what scenario like you see this in movies all the time but come on really like why would you give any attention to a bunch of guys who are being idiots in a movie? 00:06:34 Speaker 1 When you're trying to watch a movie, I don't know. 00:06:35 Speaker 2 This is just me been a decent amount of time since you and I were teenagers and I also think that the. 00:06:41 Speaker 2 Times may have affected it, you know, teenage boys engage in attention seeking behavior and they get the attention that they want. 00:06:48 Speaker 2 But were you going to talk about what exactly they were doing in the movie theater? 00:06:52 Speaker 2 I didn't want to jump a hat. 00:06:52 Speaker 1 I didn't actually catch what what were they doing? 00:06:55 Speaker 1 They were they throwing popcorn? 00:06:56 Speaker 1 Or what are they doing, yeah. 00:06:57 Speaker 2 No, so it's very interesting. 00:06:59 Speaker 2 So what happens in the movie is. 00:07:00 Speaker 1 Yeah, ohh then yeah. 00:07:02 Speaker 2 The girl that the guy is interested turns out to be mixed race and he like flips out about it and the boys the very Aryan looking boys think this is hilarious. 00:07:07 Speaker 1 Right, yeah? 00:07:11 Speaker 1 Ohh, that's what it was. 00:07:12 Speaker 1 That's right. 00:07:13 Speaker 1 Yeah, I was just sort of. 00:07:14 Speaker 1 I was distracted by the movie so I didn't actually notice what was what they were. 00:07:18 Speaker 2 So, so you get the impression that they're like. 00:07:18 Speaker 1 OK. 00:07:22 Speaker 2 Nazi, adjacent or whatever, which of course turns out to be 100% true. 00:07:26 Speaker 1 Sylvia talks to the boy whose name is Klaus. 00:07:30 Speaker 2 Class yeah. 00:07:31 Speaker 1 German name. 00:07:31 Speaker 1 Turns out that you know they're both German. 00:07:34 Speaker 1 Sylvia brings a Klaus back to her home. 00:07:38 Speaker 1 We find out that Klaus's father was in the s s, but he was killed and he lives with his uncle. 00:07:43 Speaker 2 MM. 00:07:43 Speaker 1 And Sylvia's father asks if he you know plus ever thought about going back to Germany and that's when Klaus makes a lot of anti-Semitic statements. 00:07:52 Speaker 2 Yeah, he just like goes off on a rant about it. 00:07:56 Speaker 2 It's a bit of a Nazi stereotype, Randy or Nazi stereotype, but whatever. 00:07:59 Speaker 1 I mean probably true. 00:08:02 Speaker 2 I've never met any. 00:08:02 Speaker 1 I don't know when Nazis, so yeah. 00:08:05 Speaker 1 Anyways, so we go over to Mossad HQ in Tel Aviv. 00:08:09 Speaker 1 Some, they reveal that they're gonna lead on Eichmann and those who are, you know, the higher ups are skeptical. 00:08:15 Speaker 1 I wasn't sure, but yeah, this confirms that. 00:08:18 Speaker 1 Still his father was blind. 00:08:19 Speaker 1 He had sunglasses on and it was night, but maybe he was just. 00:08:22 Speaker 1 Cool like that. 00:08:23 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's not that cool old guy born before 1900, cool. 00:08:29 Speaker 2 I wanted to jump in here with two actors in this part. 00:08:33 Speaker 2 So first we have Lior Raz who plays Etan, I believe. 00:08:35 Speaker 1 OK. 00:08:37 Speaker 2 Is the characters name. 00:08:38 Speaker 2 So Leo Raz is a real life former. 00:08:42 Speaker 2 Undercover agent so his big show on Netflix is called Fauda, which is a Israeli TV series about Israeli military people who pose as Arabs and infiltrate the West Bank to get terrorists. 00:08:43 Speaker 1 OK, OK. 00:08:56 Speaker 1 Interesting, OK? 00:08:57 Speaker 2 And that's what we were raised in in real life. 00:08:59 Speaker 2 And that's what he does in the show. 00:09:02 Speaker 2 And now he's jumped to movies so it's nice to. 00:09:05 Speaker 2 See him here. 00:09:06 Speaker 1 Yeah, and then who's the other guy? 00:09:08 Speaker 2 And the other guys, Nick Kroll, the comedian. 00:09:10 Speaker 2 Do you know him? 00:09:11 Speaker 2 He was in the league. 00:09:13 Speaker 1 I never watched the hold on. 00:09:14 Speaker 1 I have to. 00:09:14 Speaker 1 I know the name and I'm like. 00:09:18 Speaker 1 Ohh yeah he plays no I meant in in this movie his his character name is Rafi. 00:09:19 Speaker 2 Yet the crawl show. 00:09:25 Speaker 1 Ah yeah OK see I knew he looked familiar couldn't place him you know where and I'm looking at IMDb I don't know that I've seen much he's in but he does look familiar and. 00:09:36 Speaker 1 I know the name. 00:09:37 Speaker 2 Yeah, he mostly does comic stuff and he does. 00:09:39 Speaker 2 Comedy in this movie and a good story about him. 00:09:41 Speaker 1 Right, he's like stromatolites. 00:09:43 Speaker 2 That that I wanted to share since it's very applicable to this, I went to the league panel at New York Comic Con a long time ago. 00:09:50 Speaker 1 OK. 00:09:50 Speaker 2 Probably like 10 years ago and I wore this old T-shirt that has really faded so don't wear it too often, but it's a. 00:09:56 Speaker 2 Captain America shirt. 00:09:57 Speaker 1 Ah yes. 00:09:58 Speaker 2 With the six pointed star rather than A5 pointed star, the league, as you probably may have deduced. 00:10:03 Speaker 2 A lot of mean spirited comedy and it's kind of like it's always sunny in Philadelphia, where the characters are constantly making fun of each other. 00:10:11 Speaker 2 So what they? 00:10:11 Speaker 2 Would do when people would come up to ask the questions is they would make fun of everybody. 00:10:16 Speaker 2 Came up to ask them a question for me. 00:10:17 Speaker 1 OK. 00:10:18 Speaker 2 They were just like are you Captain Israel? 00:10:22 Speaker 2 I actually got off fairly light, but you know there was people dressed as Goku. 00:10:25 Speaker 2 They really gave it to them. 00:10:28 Speaker 1 So savviest fathers blind so they are skeptical of this information, but you know they heard the name. 00:10:33 Speaker 1 He heard the name Eichmann. 00:10:35 Speaker 1 Also, it's revealed that Sylvia doesn't know that she's Jewish. 00:10:39 Speaker 2 Right? 00:10:40 Speaker 1 And she was raised Catholic. 00:10:42 Speaker 2 Which means she isn't. 00:10:43 Speaker 2 Necessarily gonna push back against Klaus's Nazi like tendencies. At least not at first. They also talk about how their resources are limited. 00:10:47 Speaker 1 Right, right? 00:10:54 Speaker 2 This is Leo Raz talking. 00:10:55 Speaker 2 He's like we have enough problems to deal with. 00:10:58 Speaker 2 The state has only existed for like 6 years, and so this reminded me and not for the last time. 00:11:03 Speaker 2 Of Munich 00:11:04 Speaker 1 Yeah, see this movie reminds me of a weird combination of Munich and Argo. 00:11:10 Speaker 2 Yeah yeah, I can see that. 00:11:12 Speaker 1 I'm not weird in a bed, but it's like, you know, it doesn't seem like that makes sense. 00:11:16 Speaker 1 But if you watch it, it actually does in terms of just the way that it's set up anyway. 00:11:19 Speaker 1 So we go over to Mulkin, who is in the gym doing some fight training sparring against this other guy whose name is Aharoni. 00:11:28 Speaker 1 We find out that Malkin pretty much only gets the worst job sees, I guess because no one likes him or what is. 00:11:32 Speaker 1 What is it? 00:11:33 Speaker 1 Why is that? 00:11:34 Speaker 2 In this scene my note is I feel like Oscar's really channeling Poe Damaran. 00:11:40 Speaker 2 And this of course, was when the Star Wars sequels were still pretty hot. 00:11:44 Speaker 1 Yeah yeah, 2015 was the first was Force Awakens and I guess 2017 was. 00:11:52 Speaker 1 Well, that's good, yeah. 00:11:53 Speaker 2 So, like Poe Dameron, this character, Peter Malkin always has a smart remark. 00:11:58 Speaker 2 He's always pushing back when people push on him and he's just not as charismatic as potamon, though, and certainly only potamon. 00:12:06 Speaker 2 He's not the best of the best. 00:12:08 Speaker 1 No, we cut to him later. 00:12:10 Speaker 1 He has a painting behind him. 00:12:13 Speaker 1 Which apparently he paints, and he has flashbacks to a woman with her children who killed. 00:12:19 Speaker 1 This is the same woman who's in the very intro scene right now. 00:12:23 Speaker 1 We cut back to Argentina with a fancy party. 00:12:27 Speaker 1 Klaus has brought Sylvia and then immediately I noticed Klaus wearing a red armband which has alarm bells. 00:12:33 Speaker 2 Yeah, the whole armband thing. 00:12:35 Speaker 2 No matter what color it is, that seems to have died with naziism, you don't see too many people with arm bands anymore. 00:12:42 Speaker 1 Amen, whose name is Carlos Phoner, is speaking and has a big Nazi speech. 00:12:49 Speaker 1 He's asked what do we do with the you know this problem so. 00:12:52 Speaker 2 So yeah, a couple of things about this. 00:12:54 Speaker 2 So first of all, this reminds you of like those classic pulp Adventure Comics and also superhero comics where you're hanging around all of. 00:13:01 Speaker 2 A sudden there's just Nazis. 00:13:04 Speaker 2 There's a huge group of Nazis having. 00:13:05 Speaker 2 Party in the basement somewhere, but also the guys speech is reminiscent of that of Hitler speeches, so I haven't seen a ton of Hitler speeches, but I did watch one once where Hitler did. 00:13:12 Right? 00:13:17 Speaker 2 Like who are these people that are causing problems? 00:13:20 Speaker 2 Who are these people that are undermining our country and then he just waits for somebody? 00:13:24 Speaker 2 Else to say that. 00:13:26 Speaker 2 So this guy does the same thing, which is interesting. 00:13:29 Speaker 1 And at the end of that, all the shouting that start shouting well after they stopped shouting soap, they start shouting, see. 00:13:36 Speaker 2 Yeah, just in case you didn't get it. 00:13:37 Speaker 1 Yeah, and at that point what's her name? 00:13:40 Speaker 1 Sylvia is very uncomfortable and leaves in a huff. 00:13:43 Speaker 1 Rightfully so. 00:13:44 Speaker 1 Yeah, so we get some sort of montage of milkin at a cafe. 00:13:50 Speaker 1 He notices an older man's Holocaust tattoo. 00:13:55 Speaker 2 Which I liked because it shows that it really wasn't that long ago. 00:13:58 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. 00:13:59 Speaker 1 He you know he's on his way to his mum's bringing flowers place with the neighborhood kids. His mother is upset because she broke the photo of his sister like the frame. 00:14:11 Speaker 2 But only the frame, not the picture itself. 00:14:12 Speaker 1 Yeah, not the photo stuff. 00:14:13 Speaker 1 Yeah, but you know. 00:14:14 Speaker 1 So they have dinner and the mom asks about Hannah, who's apparently a ex. 00:14:19 Speaker 1 Your friend. 00:14:20 Speaker 1 The phone rings and she like says do not answer this. 00:14:24 Speaker 1 You know it's Shabbat. 00:14:25 Speaker 2 This is a classic spy movie thing. 00:14:27 Speaker 2 So before we get to the phone call, I wanted to jump in a couple of things here. 00:14:30 Speaker 2 Here he he says, wow, a new fridge and she's like Yup and then they also have a phone. 00:14:33 Speaker 1 Oh yes. 00:14:35 Speaker 2 So as we have discussed in the past I like Israel. 00:14:38 Speaker 2 I like Israeli history. 00:14:40 Speaker 2 I like reading about it and this jumped out to me because of my prior knowledge which is. 00:14:44 Speaker 2 In the 1st 20 years or so of Israel's existence, the bureaucracy of getting everyday household appliances was a total **** show. Pardon my French. 00:14:54 Speaker 1 Ohh yeah, I didn't know that. 00:14:56 Speaker 2 Like if you hear from people who are living there at the time, they would be like it took ten years to get like a phone. 00:15:01 Speaker 2 Wow, because it's like going through the bureaucracy and getting permits and all that jazz. So for these guys, having a fridge and a phone and 1954, they're actually in really good shape. 00:15:06 Speaker 1 Right? 00:15:12 Speaker 1 I think this is 1960 already, but yes. 00:15:15 Speaker 2 Yeah, 1960 year old. 00:15:16 Speaker 1 It started in 1954 and it's that was the melting scene and then jumped to 60s. 00:15:18 Speaker 2 Yeah, John. 00:15:21 Speaker 2 I guess that makes a little bit more sense then that by 1960 things would have calmed down a bit. 00:15:22 Speaker 1 But still. 00:15:26 Speaker 1 Yeah, what's the? 00:15:27 Speaker 1 What's the rule against answering the phone during Shabbat? 00:15:30 Speaker 2 Yeah, you're just not supposed to do it. 00:15:32 Speaker 2 It depends on how they don't seem especially religious. 00:15:35 Speaker 2 I think this would be kind of more like to use the spy movie cliche. 00:15:39 Speaker 2 It's Saturday. 00:15:40 Speaker 2 Don't pick up. 00:15:41 Speaker 2 It's Saturday, so sort of the family. 00:15:42 Speaker 1 Dad got didn't know for my name, not Jewish at all. 00:15:46 Speaker 2 Right? 00:15:47 Speaker 1 So I'm I know there's it wasn't there like something about not using fire or like like right ring Shabbat. 00:15:54 Speaker 2 If your religious you're not supposed to use machines on Shabbat, and certainly a phone would definitely because rules, but they don't seem religious, so. 00:15:56 Speaker 1 That's yeah, OK, that's what it is here. 00:16:02 Speaker 1 Right, right? 00:16:02 Speaker 1 OK, that's that. 00:16:03 Speaker 1 Sounds like I was like I wanted to make sure I got that. 00:16:06 Speaker 1 Right, because I like I think. 00:16:08 Speaker 1 But I don't. 00:16:09 Speaker 1 I don't actually know. 00:16:10 OK. 00:16:11 Speaker 1 So Mulkin gets brought in and briefed on operation finale. 00:16:16 Speaker 1 Apparently Sylvia is going to take them, take some of their people who are already on the ground, including. 00:16:22 Speaker 1 I always forget his name. Aharoni to Klaus's family home so they see if they can get a positive ID on Eichmann Mulkin you know, is hearing all these plans about how to extract them is that you know what? 00:16:35 Speaker 1 Why don't we just, you know, put a bullet in them and save us the trouble. 00:16:39 Speaker 1 But apparently the Prime Minister wants a trial. 00:16:41 Speaker 2 Yeah, this reminded me of Zero Dark 30 when Jessica Chastain was like I just wanted to drop a bomb on him. 00:16:47 Speaker 2 I didn't want to use you guys. 00:16:49 Speaker 1 Malkin makes a new plan on how to extract Eichmann. 00:16:52 Speaker 1 They apparently need to extract him by plane. 00:16:54 Speaker 1 That's an. 00:16:55 Speaker 1 With that they need a good cover story. It also just so happens to be argentinian's hundred I thought was 150th. 00:17:04 Speaker 2 Could be I don't know. 00:17:05 Speaker 2 I I have the note 60 on anniversary but maybe 60 days until the anniversary. 00:17:10 Speaker 1 I think that's probably is. Yeah, I think there's 100 and fifty 50th anniversary, so the cover stories of those, you know, because they Jewish or the Israeli airline is it El Ave. 00:17:11 Speaker 2 It's an anniversary. 00:17:23 Speaker 1 Hello sorry yeah L doesn't usually make trips to Argentina but you know they make it a special occasion so they said they're sending people and that's a good cover story for them. 00:17:32 Speaker 1 They're going to drug Eichmann, but they need Hannah, who has the experience and field training. 00:17:39 Speaker 1 So Malcolm goes to see his ex Hannah at the hospital. 00:17:42 Speaker 1 Hey, it's Shoshanna Dreyfus AKA meddlesome miamoo new I forget how you pronounce the name from Inglorious Basterds. 00:17:50 Speaker 2 Yeah, that's the only rule I think any of us will know from her. 00:17:54 Speaker 1 Because we don't watch French movies. 00:17:56 Speaker 2 Well yeah, what I'm saying is she's mostly been in French movies except for this one and inglorious Basterds. 00:18:01 Speaker 1 Based, So what does she only do? 00:18:03 Speaker 1 Movies about hunting Nazis? 00:18:05 Speaker 2 I wonder if she's a French Jewish actor. 00:18:07 Speaker 1 She is actually. 00:18:08 Speaker 1 I did look that up. 00:18:09 Speaker 2 OK, sound like she looks Jewish. 00:18:11 Speaker 2 If you have idea. 00:18:11 Speaker 1 You know, but you you know, with two different roles of that which made me wonder about Oscar Isaac as well. 00:18:17 Speaker 1 Because here and Moon Knight playing a Jewish character, apparently he may have some Jewish ancestry on his father's side, but he's a says he's a whole mix of stuff. 00:18:27 Speaker 2 There you go. 00:18:28 Speaker 1 She doesn't want to join a hit squad, but he convinces Hannah to join by. 00:18:33 Speaker 1 You know, saying it's in Argentina. 00:18:35 Speaker 1 They'll have good steak and and salsa dancing. 00:18:38 Speaker 1 Which I don't watch it. 00:18:40 Speaker 1 Should they never mind they do eat? 00:18:41 Speaker 1 A lot of meat. 00:18:43 Speaker 2 Yeah, he basically works on her and he works his charm and she already kind of likes him but she has her own traumas in the past too. 00:18:51 Speaker 1 She mentions that her last job she screwed up and someone died, but it was ruled as a he had an allergy so it wasn't her fault. 00:18:58 Speaker 1 Yeah, so we cut back to Argentina. 00:19:02 Speaker 1 Harooni and another Mossad agent whose name is this efram. 00:19:08 Speaker 1 Are driving Sylvia to the house. 00:19:10 Speaker 1 They create some sort of said, you know get find some way to get the uncle outside of. 00:19:14 Speaker 1 The house. 00:19:16 Speaker 1 So she goes in and she meets Eichmann or well, I don't. 00:19:20 Speaker 1 I don't have what his cover name is written down. 00:19:23 Speaker 2 Clement Nicholas Clement is his covering. 00:19:26 Speaker 1 And apparently they've heard all about her. 00:19:29 Speaker 1 You know, trying to welcome me and sit her down for a cup of tea. 00:19:33 Speaker 1 She brings a present to apologize for the, you know, you know embarrassing him. 00:19:37 Speaker 1 Last time class comes in, he's still pretty upset about it and kind of disrespects her and which point she leaves. 00:19:45 Speaker 1 And then Eichmann is threatening, well, not threatening. 00:19:49 Speaker 1 I would say, well, how would you describe what he does to? 00:19:52 Speaker 1 Klaus, he just. 00:19:52 Speaker 2 I think slightly physically abusive designing. 00:19:54 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, there you go. 00:19:55 Speaker 1 That's it. 00:19:56 Speaker 2 Did you pick up on the clues dropped here? 00:19:59 Speaker 1 Oh yes, I immediately he said. 00:20:01 Speaker 1 I'm sorry father, and then Aikman tries to cover me, saying you need don't need. 00:20:05 Speaker 1 To call me that. 00:20:06 Speaker 2 Yeah, and then also when his wife says this year even more so. 00:20:10 Speaker 1 Oh yeah, I see. 00:20:12 Speaker 1 I didn't catch that yet about the flowers. 00:20:14 Speaker 2 There's there's a. 00:20:14 Speaker 2 Little bit of like Sherlock Holmes detective stuff, which I was not expecting. 00:20:18 Speaker 1 Ah yeah, Sylvia runs outside of the house, Klaus goes after her, and then Aikman also comes outside. 00:20:24 Speaker 1 At that point, Ephraim actually gets a photo with it's like a camera hidden inside a briefcase. 00:20:30 Speaker 2 Yeah, that's right. 00:20:31 Speaker 2 So a little a little preview for spy fact versus fiction cause I have tons of it. 00:20:35 Speaker 2 Is they did use a briefcase camera, not in this part, but the the shutter control was on the handle. 00:20:42 So they would. 00:20:42 Speaker 2 Just kind of point out like a gun and be like click, click, click. 00:20:45 Speaker 1 So there's a meeting of the entire team who's going to be extracting Eichmann. 00:20:50 Speaker 1 And they have, but you know they have to make sure it's him milk and realizes the clue that you picked up on the flowers, apparently. 00:20:57 Speaker 1 It was the IT that day was the 25th wedding anniversary and so they were like, Nope, it's definitely him. 00:21:03 Speaker 2 Yeah, which I do not. 00:21:05 Speaker 2 I would not say it's definitely have based on that, but they didn't ask me. 00:21:09 Speaker 1 Well, there was also. 00:21:11 Speaker 1 I mean there was a lot of different things. 00:21:12 Speaker 1 It was, you know, the name. 00:21:13 Speaker 1 I the fact that the son had the name, Eichmann, and. 00:21:17 Speaker 1 The ears match is what the thing like the forensic photographers said. 00:21:18 Speaker 2 Call him father. 00:21:23 Speaker 2 OK, so the ears this reminds me of another movie I watched a documentary called The Imposter which is very good and I won't tell you everything that happens because it hasn't twists and turns. 00:21:28 Speaker 1 OK, all right. 00:21:34 Speaker 2 But there's a part where they use ears. 00:21:36 Speaker 2 To see if the guy claiming to be this one person is in fact the same person because ears are very hard to track like you can disguise yourself, but your ears are not. 00:21:46 Speaker 1 Right? 00:21:47 Speaker 2 Going to change shape hmm? 00:21:48 Speaker 1 Interesting, interesting, yeah was Oh yeah, so one of the other team members Mosher wants to kill Aiken instead of making him famous. 00:21:55 Speaker 1 And he tries to get you know everyone to say how many members of their family they lost in the Holocaust and like shuts it down. 00:22:02 Speaker 1 Me saying, I'm not playing this game. 00:22:04 Speaker 2 Right? 00:22:04 Speaker 1 And as they're doing this, Prime Minister David Ben Gurion comes to meet them. 00:22:09 Speaker 2 Yeah, and before that though, I have a note in 1960 though. Is the Pope Catholic joke is still new and funny because Nick Kroll says that everybody laughs out loud. 00:22:16 Got you? 00:22:18 Speaker 1 Yeah man. 00:22:20 Speaker 2 Yeah, so David Ben Green shows that the 1st Prime Minister of Israel and I think we've discussed this before. 00:22:25 Speaker 2 But do you remember what relatively famous comic book characters appearance is based on? 00:22:30 Speaker 2 David Ben 00:22:32 Speaker 1 Oh no. 00:22:36 Speaker 2 OK, it's Ganthet from Green Lantern. 00:22:37 Speaker 1 Ohh, that makes sense. 00:22:39 Speaker 1 I was like alright, I was running down. 00:22:41 Speaker 1 I was like it. 00:22:42 Speaker 1 If if I was like it feels like something from that like Neil Adams era but I couldn't place it but yes. 00:22:49 Speaker 2 Mostly his hair or lack thereof. 00:22:50 Speaker 1 Yeah yeah, and by default like all of the other you know. 00:22:56 Speaker 1 Audience thank you so we have a montage of fake passports and travel. 00:23:01 Speaker 1 They all travel in direct routes, which I'm like. 00:23:04 Speaker 1 OK, that's good. 00:23:05 Speaker 1 They're not all just flying on the same plane to get. 00:23:07 Speaker 1 There, yeah, they have nice cover stories. Hannah and ooh, I don't remember this one this guy's name. 00:23:14 Speaker 2 Yeah, there's a lot of characters to remember their names. 00:23:17 Speaker 1 So Hannah and Yakov are posing as like a married couple or something. 00:23:22 Speaker 1 They go to rent some cars and at that point like he tries to. 00:23:26 Speaker 1 Seems like he's trying to make a move on her, but she like rebuffs him. 00:23:30 Speaker 2 Yeah, if you. 00:23:30 Speaker 2 Got a little bit too into the role is what I would say. 00:23:33 Speaker 2 Yeah, so this is a little bit like arger too where they have to get cars they have to get safe. 00:23:37 Speaker 2 Houses they have to do all this paperwork. 00:23:39 Speaker 1 Yeah, I like they set up the safe house. 00:23:42 Speaker 1 They inspect it and then we go over to Eichmann doing another. 00:23:46 Speaker 1 You know story time at a Nazi meeting. 00:23:49 Speaker 2 Yeah, and they're also plotting to like take over Argentina. 00:23:52 Speaker 1 Yeah, so Frumer is trying to convince him that they can come out of the shadows. 00:23:52 Speaker 2 Yeah, right. 00:23:57 Speaker 1 You know we have the support of you know this many people and. 00:24:01 Speaker 2 Right, another classic. 00:24:01 Speaker 1 I mean. 00:24:02 Speaker 2 Yeah adventure, story plotline. 00:24:05 Speaker 1 So Malkin and Aharoni or Servelli Eichmann's house, they discover that he has, like he's like clockwork, he has a very strict schedule, you know, takes a bus to and from the Mercedes factory. 00:24:18 Speaker 1 So they figure out that they will grab him after he gets off the bus but and crosses over to where? 00:24:25 Speaker 2 Yeah, which Tom Clancy taught us. 00:24:26 Speaker 2 If you think you're being targeted, don't ever have the same routine that was in Patriot games. 00:24:31 Speaker 1 Right, but he doesn't think he's being targeted. 00:24:34 Speaker 2 He's generally suspicious, but there's no reason to think he's any more being targeted right now than he has been in the last 20 years. 00:24:40 Speaker 1 True, true, I don't how I don't know how suspicious it does, is he? 00:24:45 Speaker 2 Well, they talk about in the book how careful they have to be, because if they. 00:24:48 Speaker 2 Make him really. 00:24:50 Speaker 2 Suspicious at all. 00:24:51 Speaker 2 He could easily run and then they'd never find. 00:24:53 Speaker 2 Him again because it. 00:24:53 Speaker 1 Right, right? 00:24:53 Speaker 2 Took him years and years to find. 00:24:55 Speaker 2 Him the first time. 00:24:56 Speaker 1 I'm just saying, but in general, how it doesn't seem like he's had, you know? 00:25:01 Speaker 1 Hiding too much? 00:25:03 Speaker 1 I mean a lot of like it's not. 00:25:03 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's. 00:25:04 Speaker 1 There's nothing overtly like you know. 00:25:06 Speaker 1 He doesn't have routines any long circuitous routes to try to, you know, avoid any tails coming going to and coming from places, yeah? 00:25:14 Speaker 2 I think it's. 00:25:14 Speaker 2 Safe to say that by this point he gotten pretty. 00:25:16 Speaker 2 Comfortable with this situation. 00:25:17 Speaker 1 Yeah, OK, that that's the point I was trying to make. Yeah, as they're driving at one point mulkin and they're frym. Hear about Gary Powers's capture on a radio. 00:25:25 Speaker 2 Yeah, he's giving a shout out, that's nice. 00:25:27 Speaker 1 I mean, OK, I was like oh wait 1960. Yep, Nope. The timeline matches up. 00:25:31 Speaker 2 But I don't think they would trade them. 00:25:34 Speaker 2 They got caught. 00:25:35 Speaker 1 Now and so they go and recruit some local Jews to help who are known as saying, yeah, thank you. 00:25:42 Speaker 2 Sign him. 00:25:44 Speaker 1 So they're practicing and training for the extraction and their boss, whose name is Harrell. 00:25:51 Speaker 1 It says that you know after that point you'll have no more. 00:25:54 Speaker 1 Contact with them so they're going to exchange money. 00:25:57 Speaker 1 In cafes, which that was, they have a little cool little montage. 00:26:00 Speaker 1 You know one is given. 00:26:03 Speaker 1 The cream for the coffee puts money in the Creamer and is brought directly to the next person. 00:26:08 Speaker 1 And yeah, it's a nice little exchange. 00:26:10 Speaker 2 Classic spy stuff. 00:26:11 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm at one point while they're surveilling Ikeman Mulkin has some more flashbacks, sees his sister who we you know. 00:26:19 Speaker 1 We figure out is the woman and who in the flashbacks hanging from. 00:26:24 Speaker 1 You know, after he has his flashback, Hannah senses something. 00:26:27 Speaker 1 They have an almost romantic moment in a car when he's like, Nope, not until this is done. 00:26:33 Speaker 2 Yeah, which of course that never really gets no, there's no payoff for that, but OK. 00:26:40 Speaker 1 Everyone loads into cars and we see Aikman, you know, waiting for the bus and he's watching board birds in. 00:26:46 Speaker 1 You know this weird formation. 00:26:48 Speaker 1 I've never seen birds do that, have you? 00:26:50 Speaker 2 Yeah I have. 00:26:50 Speaker 2 It's freaky. 00:26:51 Speaker 2 It looks like some kind of drone attack is about to happen. 00:26:54 Speaker 2 I could see why people are afraid of birds, but it looks really cool. 00:26:58 Speaker 1 It does, yeah, it's a cool visual, but it's like wow, I like I wasn't sure if that was a thing that actually happened. 00:27:02 Speaker 1 It was like, alright, weird, omen. 00:27:04 Speaker 2 Yeah it does, it does. 00:27:05 Speaker 1 So the cars get into position 1 pretends to be broken down near by the path of the bus, and as they're watching a first bus comes, no one gets off, and so they're you know. 00:27:18 Speaker 1 Wanting wait, what's going on? 00:27:19 Speaker 1 And then minutes later, Aikman got gets off a second bus. 00:27:23 Speaker 2 Yeah, so he was late to the. 00:27:26 Speaker 1 Which sets off their suspicions a little bit. 00:27:29 Speaker 2 Yeah, we're like freaking out. 00:27:31 Speaker 1 And so as they, they're going there, as Aikman is walking towards his house, Melkin grabs him, but Aikman managed to let out a scream. 00:27:40 Speaker 1 Eichmann's wife is suspicious and is, like you know, like think she hear something goes outside. Doesn't see any. 00:27:47 Speaker 1 And they managed to get away. 00:27:50 Speaker 2 Yeah, but they lose his glasses in the process, so it's not a very well done grab. 00:27:51 Speaker 1 No, that's right. 00:27:55 Speaker 1 And as they're driving, they put these little things on their car that says CD, which gets them through the checkpoints we'll talk about. 00:28:03 Speaker 2 Right? 00:28:05 Speaker 1 Though it's by a fact versus by fiction. 00:28:07 Speaker 2 OK. 00:28:08 Speaker 1 Klaus later finds his father's glasses in the field as we talked about. 00:28:13 Speaker 1 Aikman is brought back to the safe house. 00:28:15 Speaker 1 He's actually is. 00:28:15 Speaker 1 He tied to a chair. 00:28:16 Speaker 1 He just non tied. 00:28:17 Speaker 2 I think he's just sitting there, yeah? 00:28:18 Speaker 1 He's just sitting there as I have in my notes. 00:28:20 Speaker 1 Tied to chair was like that. 00:28:21 Speaker 1 Was probably an assumption, but. 00:28:23 Speaker 1 And the Aharoni starts his interrogation, tries to trip michman up, shouts the wrong s s number at him, at which point, you know, Eichmann's, like you know what? 00:28:31 Speaker 2 Yeah, that was cool. 00:28:35 Speaker 1 Yes, no, this is my real ISS number, and I accept my fate. 00:28:39 Speaker 2 Yeah, so he tries to convince him at first that he's Jewish. 00:28:43 Speaker 1 Ah yes. 00:28:43 Speaker 2 And he says the Jewish prayer at one point so. 00:28:48 Speaker 2 In the book, they say that when he started to do that in real life, a bunch of Asians had to leave the room to keep themselves from strangling him to death right then and there. 00:28:56 Speaker 1 Well, he asked, understandably. 00:28:56 Speaker 2 They were pretty ****** *** about it. 00:28:59 Speaker 2 I was like young in the TV look at his deck. 00:29:02 Speaker 2 Just look at his deck. 00:29:03 Speaker 2 He'll find out if he's Jewish. 00:29:07 Speaker 1 I did not think of that boy. 00:29:09 Speaker 2 They didn't ask me. 00:29:12 Speaker 1 Once they've gotten to admit the team toasts their success. 00:29:16 Speaker 1 And Klaus, you know, ask goes to the other Nazis for help. 00:29:20 Speaker 1 They're trying to figure out who else. 00:29:21 Speaker 1 New and he sees Sylvia's present in the corner and realizes that she has must have something to do with. 00:29:27 Speaker 1 It, at which point Sylvia's father is taken in by the Argentinian police. 00:29:32 Speaker 2 Some good twists and turns here. 00:29:34 Speaker 1 The Fram comes back to the team with news about the plane. It's been delayed for 10 days, so in that time period they need to watch Eichmann and they're going to have to do 24 hours do it in shifts. 00:29:45 Speaker 1 But Herona is supposed to. 00:29:47 Speaker 1 The interrogator is supposed to be the only one who actually talks to him. 00:29:50 Speaker 2 Yeah, so I remember this being much more of the movie. 00:29:53 Speaker 1 Yeah, right? 00:29:54 Speaker 2 Like in my memory, most of the movie was them in the safe house and there's the psychological thing between Oscar, Isaac and Ben Kingsley. 00:30:01 Speaker 2 But going back and watching it again, it's really not the case. 00:30:04 Speaker 2 It's only about 20 minutes of a 2 hour movie. 00:30:06 Speaker 1 Mulkin has more Holocaust flashbacks and truck full of bodies with milk and sister on the top. 00:30:14 Speaker 1 And this is 1. 00:30:15 Speaker 1 He's watching Eichmann at one point, and 00:30:17 Speaker 2 OK, well wait so I want to talk about the truck. 00:30:19 Speaker 2 Full of dead bodies, so in. 00:30:20 Speaker 2 My memory, it was one of those. 00:30:23 Speaker 2 Portable gas chamber trucks. 00:30:27 Speaker 2 But I don't think it is. 00:30:28 Speaker 2 I think it's just a truck full of dead bodies as I think I may have said before. 00:30:31 Speaker 2 I'm not the biggest fan of Holocaust movies because. 00:30:34 Speaker 2 I find them kind of gratuitous. 00:30:36 Speaker 2 In this case, I probably would have preferred. 00:30:38 Speaker 2 You didn't need to actually show a truck full of dead bodies to get the picture. 00:30:42 Speaker 2 I think the. 00:30:43 Speaker 2 Hanged Sister was probably shocking enough, but then I remember talking to you where you're like. 00:30:46 Speaker 1 Right? 00:30:48 Speaker 2 Well, audiences are dumb and they need to be reminded about. 00:30:51 Speaker 2 What's going on? 00:30:52 Speaker 2 Because they're not in the know. 00:30:54 Speaker 1 Did I say that at the time or did I? 00:30:57 Speaker 1 Are you just thinking of? 00:30:57 Speaker 1 What I would say. 00:30:58 Speaker 2 I was thinking what you would say and what you have said about many other movies, but not this one. 00:31:02 Speaker 1 Yes, yeah yeah, I feel like also yet on the one hand it was not as gratuitous as it could have been. 00:31:08 Speaker 2 Now that is certainly true. 00:31:10 Speaker 1 So I I think it struck just the right tone of alright, you know, and it doesn't shows it. 00:31:15 Speaker 1 But it doesn't like linger on it really. 00:31:17 Speaker 1 It's just enough to see that ohh you know, you see Malc and sister. 00:31:22 Speaker 1 The top. 00:31:23 Speaker 1 But yeah, so this up and he's having this flashback. 00:31:26 Speaker 1 While he's doing one as of one of his shifts to watch Aikman. 00:31:29 Speaker 1 And he's like tempted to wake him up, but doesn't or wake him up or kill him. 00:31:33 Speaker 1 We're not really sure. 00:31:34 Speaker 2 Yeah, I interpreted it more as he was tempted to. 00:31:36 Speaker 2 Kill him right then and there. 00:31:37 Speaker 1 Yeah, we find out that the Argentinian police are claiming her father is Joseph Menglin. 00:31:42 Speaker 2 Which I don't believe that was actually the case. 00:31:44 Speaker 2 I don't even think they needed to have a pretension to arrest him, yeah? 00:31:47 Speaker 1 Yeah, but and we find out that Al Al is refusing to send the plane unless there's a signed document from Eichmann saying he's coming willingly. 00:31:58 Speaker 1 They need to get that. 00:31:59 Speaker 1 They also need to replace his glasses so you can actually see. 00:32:01 Speaker 1 What's in the signed letter? 00:32:02 Speaker 2 Which they do somehow. 00:32:04 Speaker 1 Yeah, I was. 00:32:04 Speaker 1 I was wondering about that, yeah? 00:32:06 Speaker 2 How do they do his prescription? 00:32:08 Speaker 1 Maybe he knows his prescription and that he's you know there's no good experience. 00:32:11 Speaker 2 Don't worry about it. 00:32:13 Speaker 1 Harooni tries to get him a sign, Aikman, you know, denies the title of the architect of the final solution, and says and we all had our nicknames and titles to make so gruesome work light. 00:32:26 Speaker 2 Yeah, OK, so this is the whole icon in Jerusalem thing, so I'm not gonna hold up the discussion too much. 00:32:31 Speaker 1 OK. 00:32:32 Speaker 2 If you're curious about the book, you can check it out. 00:32:33 Speaker 2 I've also heard that it's since been debunked. 00:32:36 Speaker 2 But I don't. 00:32:36 Speaker 2 Know for sure. 00:32:37 Speaker 2 That's just in my memory, but what Hannah Arendt argues in it was that Eichmann. 00:32:42 Speaker 2 's reputation as like the mastermind behind the Holocaust is not true. 00:32:49 Speaker 2 And also, even if it were true. 00:32:52 Speaker 2 The question of how responsible is he for everything? 00:32:55 Speaker 2 Really, because if he didn't do it, they would have just killed him and got someone else to do it. 00:33:00 Speaker 2 So the problem is really the system, right? 00:33:00 Speaker 1 Right? 00:33:03 Speaker 1 OK. 00:33:03 Speaker 2 It's the system that's the problem and trying to pin it all on this one guy really isn't fair or really accurate. 00:33:09 Speaker 2 Like even talks about in the movie, it's going to be a show trial like I really don't have a chance of being. 00:33:15 Speaker 2 Innocent and Hannah agrees with him about that, but she also says, well, just being a Nazi that high up he deserved to die anyway. 00:33:16 Speaker 1 Right? 00:33:25 Speaker 2 So it's not like he was ever gonna make it out alive. 00:33:28 Speaker 2 It's just a larger question. 00:33:30 Speaker 2 Almost more philosophy than history of like how much can you really pin on? 00:33:35 Speaker 2 This one guy. 00:33:36 Speaker 1 OK. 00:33:36 Speaker 2 I mean, he's not Hitler, he's just one of the lieutenants and not even a. 00:33:39 Speaker 2 Particularly high one. 00:33:40 Speaker 1 As you say, he says he's just a cogging machine. He claims that he was chained to his desk 24 hours a day, but of course once he's saying all these things we have or shown footage that contradicts that shows him in the woods. You know, as he's going to see an execution. 00:33:55 Speaker 2 Yeah, but is it an unreliable narrator? 00:33:57 Speaker 2 I mean, like I don't know. 00:33:59 Speaker 1 Yeah, no, that's exactly what it is, it's but. 00:34:02 Speaker 2 Yeah, he did visit the camps at least once. 00:34:05 Speaker 2 Now what you saw there? 00:34:06 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, we'll get to that. 00:34:06 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's another story, right? 00:34:10 Speaker 1 As you know, more is revealed about the the flashbacks that he's having, so Raffi is paying one of the OK. 00:34:18 Speaker 1 What is the sayanim? 00:34:20 Speaker 2 Sorry to hear, yeah. 00:34:20 Speaker 1 Money to go buy groceries and she happens to notice where the money is being hidden in a mirror. 00:34:27 Speaker 1 Uh, which is like in what a light fixture Ah Peroni trades with mulkin to feed? 00:34:35 Speaker 1 That's a weird way to phrase it. 00:34:36 Speaker 1 So let me start that again. It's aharoni's turn to feed Eichmann, but he's just like no, I can't. Can someone please do it? And so Malcolm volunteers. 00:34:45 Speaker 2 What you volunteers should be because he wants to talk to him. 00:34:47 Speaker 2 Again, get closer to him. 00:34:50 Speaker 1 And Eichmann recognizes Melkin's voice, and knows that that's the one who grabbed him. 00:34:55 Speaker 1 And I can ask because his family is safe and melkin doesn't answer. 00:34:59 Speaker 2 Ah, his base. 00:35:00 Speaker 2 He cares about his family. 00:35:01 Speaker 1 Siphoners tells Klaus that he heard about two Jews returning rental cars paid for in U.S. 00:35:07 Speaker 1 dollars, and says that we'll find them by seeing who has U.S. 00:35:13 Speaker 2 Yeah, so this was a good tension. 00:35:14 Speaker 2 How the debt is like closing on them while they're dealing with this problem of getting them to sign. 00:35:19 Speaker 1 So Mulkin thinks that he can make Eichmann Sign, says appeal to his ego, and a heironeous scoffs at him, says you do your job, and I'll do mine. 00:35:28 Speaker 1 At one point. 00:35:30 Speaker 1 Aikman has to use the bathroom, and so he's you know, sitting there as they're, you know, still with his, you know, taped up goggles on so he can't see anything. 00:35:40 Speaker 1 Tells us what was this story. 00:35:42 Speaker 1 This is about I didn't. 00:35:43 Speaker 1 I didn't quite. 00:35:44 Speaker 2 It was some kind of joke about, yeah, the perfect Nazi is as blonde as Hitler and taller than this other guy. 00:35:49 Oh no. 00:35:51 Speaker 1 Not that hard. 00:35:51 Speaker 2 Or it's just another part. 00:35:52 Speaker 1 It was the story about him and his father and how he needed to ship. 00:35:56 Speaker 2 I don't remember that. 00:35:56 Speaker 1 Yeah, that's that's what that's apparently. 00:35:58 Speaker 1 Yeah, he's telling that as he's, you know, taking a crap. 00:36:01 Speaker 2 Right, well, the boy is he. 00:36:03 Speaker 2 He seems all nice, so they're they're doing this thing in the movie, which is not really based in reality where he's doing this Hannibal Lecter thing where he seems all nice. 00:36:08 Speaker 1 OK. 00:36:11 Speaker 2 But you know, deep down he's a monster and he's revealed to be a monster later. 00:36:15 Speaker 1 Anyways, once he's back in the room, Malkin tells him that his family he asks again about his family and says yes, your family is safe. 00:36:23 Speaker 1 And we see that Klaus and the Nazis have a sketch of afraim. 00:36:27 Speaker 1 So like you said, the net is close. 00:36:29 Speaker 1 Using in right and Moshe is angry about having to feed and care for Eichmann. 00:36:35 Speaker 1 You know it's his shift next, but Malcolm says, you know, no, you, you're too angry, so I'll take your shift instead. 00:36:41 Speaker 2 Yeah, they're feeling the pressure they're feeling the strain of days and days and days. 00:36:45 Speaker 2 Pretty well done, yeah. 00:36:46 Speaker 1 Yeah, so when he goes to take his shift, Malcolm takes off Eichmann's, blindfold starts talking to him. Ask him why he won't sign trying to appeal to his ego. 00:36:58 Speaker 1 Also, you know gives him a cigarette and also and gives him a shave and as he's doing so, asks about the if he really called you know the. 00:37:06 Speaker 1 Concentration camps the liquidation machines. 00:37:10 Speaker 1 And then Eichmann tries to claim that he tried to get Jews out of the country, send them to Madagascar. 00:37:17 Speaker 1 Right, which I don't? 00:37:18 Speaker 1 Is there any truth in that? 00:37:20 Speaker 2 Well, I was hoping you would look at for specified versus, but So what I recall from my memories, this is my memory is there were various schemes in the early days of Nazi Germany to get the Jews just to leave Germany and Europe. 00:37:22 Speaker 1 Oh, it is. 00:37:35 Speaker 2 Instead of killing them so there were various schemes to accomplish that, some of which were done with early Zionists to get them to Israel. 00:37:44 Speaker 2 He mentions trucks for lives with this guy named Doctor Caster, but the problem as I think Eichmann says in the movie is that no country wanted to take them. 00:37:55 Speaker 2 I'll let that hang there. 00:37:57 Speaker 1 Mulkin tells Hannah they spoke with Eichmann. 00:37:59 Speaker 1 She tries to counter that everything Eichmann had said about you know everyone being animals and tells milk, and to, you know, keep your distance. 00:38:08 Speaker 1 But of course, Smolkin ignores this and next scene we see him is. 00:38:11 Speaker 1 He's helping ikeman, like exercises. 00:38:14 Speaker 1 They're listening to music. 00:38:15 Speaker 2 Yeah, Clarice, don't let him take you in, Clarice. 00:38:18 Speaker 1 Eichmann wants to know more about Malkin said, and Malkin says you can know everything about me. 00:38:23 Speaker 1 Anything you want after you sign. 00:38:25 Speaker 1 Yeah, you said alright? 00:38:26 Speaker 1 Well, what about? 00:38:27 Speaker 1 How about you tell me your name in exchange for consideration of my terms. 00:38:31 Speaker 1 It's left hanging whether or not he actually does. 00:38:33 Speaker 2 So yeah, that is also kind of Hannibal. 00:38:36 Speaker 2 I know I keep bringing it up, but it is kind of Hannibal Lecter Ish. 00:38:37 Speaker 1 So yeah, so Harrell tells them that they're running out of time, and they really need to go. 00:38:44 Speaker 1 Get him to sign so we see Mulkin getting Eichmann ready for a forged passport. 00:38:49 Speaker 1 Photos and he's still trying to convince him to sign. 00:38:52 Speaker 1 They put a fake mustache on Eichmann. 00:38:55 Speaker 2 To get the picture, yeah. 00:38:56 Speaker 1 And Yakov is sent on a walk because he's making everyone nervous. 00:39:01 Speaker 1 And as he's walking in the rain, he sees that the Germans are searching for them. 00:39:06 Speaker 1 He hides, grabs a rock just in case he needs to kill one of them. 00:39:11 Speaker 1 It doesn't. 00:39:11 Speaker 2 Finally, some action. 00:39:13 Speaker 1 He gets back to the State House and tells them to hide Eichmann and the Nazis are just about to leave. 00:39:19 Speaker 1 Yaakov was trying to stop Eichmann from shouting, but that quickly turned into Eichmann choke, Yaakov, choking Eichmann. 00:39:28 Speaker 2 Accidentally, we're not. 00:39:30 Speaker 1 Hmm yeah Aikman calls out Mulkins's name and everyone figures out that Eichmann knows Mulligan's name has been talking to him and giving him cigarettes. 00:39:41 Speaker 2 Oh my gosh, so much arguing. 00:39:44 Speaker 1 Mulkin still thinks that he can get Tim to sign and Hannah convinces Harrell to just at least let him try and Harrell's like. Alright, you know, we have literally no other options, so milk and talks to Eichmann gives him a drink aikman's trying to find out who milk and lost he shows Eichmann, a photo of his sister. 00:39:56 Speaker 2 Right? 00:40:05 Speaker 1 Who had three children who were killed as well. 00:40:08 Speaker 2 Right? 00:40:09 Speaker 1 They have this whole back and forth about, actually what? 00:40:12 Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm trying to remember now with the back and forth is. 00:40:14 Speaker 2 OK so I remember this is interesting. 00:40:16 Speaker 2 So yeah, he's like like when you kill people indiscriminately and like he's like Oh yeah, well, your country has nuclear bombs and they kill indiscriminately too. 00:40:25 Speaker 2 Even though you've never used them, so it's not really the same thing. 00:40:29 Speaker 2 That's all I all I got. 00:40:31 Speaker 2 He also says that he wants to see his wife again. 00:40:34 Speaker 2 Like that does, and Malkin promises. 00:40:36 Speaker 2 If you sign then I will make sure that you will see her again and that's what convinces him to. 00:40:42 Speaker 2 Fine, though I always thought it was kind of funny. 00:40:44 Speaker 2 It's like, yeah, you could see her again once you're in prison. 00:40:48 Speaker 2 I never said when. 00:40:50 Speaker 1 Right, so the rest of the team are waiting in the living room of the safe house. 00:40:54 Speaker 1 Hannah goes congratulate Malkin. 00:40:56 Speaker 2 It's this big hero moment. 00:40:58 Speaker 1 And Eichmann, has you know another flashback, this time showing more of it? 00:41:04 Speaker 1 There's he's in the flashback. 00:41:06 Speaker 1 There's a woman holding up a child. 00:41:08 Speaker 1 You know, seemingly asking Aikman to save the child, and then you see you don't see them getting shot, but you see the blood splatter on his uniform. 00:41:19 Speaker 2 Yeah, I didn't like this whole part. 00:41:21 Speaker 2 I thought it was really excessive, but that's me. 00:41:23 Speaker 1 So we now see Graciella saying him who has stolen the money. 00:41:30 Speaker 1 And is trying to exchange the US dollars for peso. 00:41:32 Speaker 1 Those and we see that she's captured and tortured. 00:41:36 Speaker 2 Right by the Argentinian Nazis. 00:41:39 Speaker 1 Yeah, and Klaus and Fahner arrive and Klaus gets her to talk and she tells him where the safe house is. 00:41:45 Speaker 2 Yeah, he's the good cop's closest. 00:41:48 Speaker 1 So the team are packing up the safe house. 00:41:50 Speaker 1 Hannah is giving Eichmann the sedative as. 00:41:54 Speaker 1 Getting the 75 Malkin is also there and he's like man is telling a story about 5000 Jews in a pit and about a woman in the pit betting to save her child. 00:42:07 Speaker 1 And we have a flashback again, and but now it shows Fruma helped her sister as the woman trying to, you know. 00:42:15 Speaker 1 Saying her child, which it wasn't before, I actually went back as I wait, was that fremer the first time? 00:42:20 Speaker 1 No, it was not. 00:42:20 Speaker 1 It was some other woman. 00:42:21 Speaker 2 Nope, she died differently. 00:42:23 Speaker 2 Yeah, we saw. 00:42:24 Speaker 1 But really, he's just trying to get a rise out of Melkin and Malkin is getting so ****** *** and wanting to strangle Eichmann that he's like almost that he's trying to get Hannah to leave the room. 00:42:35 Speaker 1 But that's. 00:42:36 Speaker 2 It was really weird. 00:42:37 Speaker 2 This is like him. 00:42:38 Speaker 2 Going full evil. 00:42:39 Speaker 2 And I didn't understand why was it just to try to get walk into Kelly? 00:42:43 Speaker 2 So you didn't have to. 00:42:44 Speaker 1 No, I was just trying to get a rise out of him now. 00:42:44 Speaker 2 Face trial. 00:42:46 Speaker 1 OK, you know, alright, he's he's resigned to his fate, but that doesn't mean he can't mess with him in the process, it's. 00:42:51 Speaker 2 But why did he wait so long to? 00:42:52 Speaker 2 Start messing with them then. 00:42:53 Speaker 1 Because he now that he's gotten his guard down, he has all the information he needs to mess with him. 00:42:58 Speaker 2 I guess so I I wondered, this is my theory is that he seemed too sympathetic for most. 00:43:04 Speaker 2 Of the movie. 00:43:04 Speaker 1 So you need to remind the audience that no, he's really a terrible person. 00:43:08 Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. 00:43:09 Speaker 2 Well, that's why I thought it would be interesting, and I know the movie is not a philosophical movie like Ekman and. 00:43:17 Speaker 2 But it would have been quite interesting if they had had him seem totally sympathetic the entire time, but you know, in the back of your mind that he. 00:43:25 Speaker 2 Is in fact Nazi. 00:43:26 Speaker 1 I don't know that that would have worked for a movie. 00:43:30 Speaker 2 It would have been interesting, yeah, but I think they just threw this head in at the end so that you're less sympathetic. 00:43:36 Speaker 2 To him, because then things like did. 00:43:38 Speaker 2 Too good of a job for trending down I guess. 00:43:40 Speaker 1 Well, so they leave the safe house dressed as elal pilots. 00:43:44 Speaker 1 They see the Nazis coming and have to go out, get out through the back. 00:43:49 Speaker 2 Close call yeah. 00:43:50 Speaker 1 They hot wire a car but they have to leave two men behind since they can't all fit in the car. 00:43:55 Speaker 1 Klaus enters the safe house and the room and sees his father's bed and Harrell and the El pilot on the plane are waiting for the team. 00:44:03 Speaker 1 They're at a checkpoint when Eichmann starts to stir, kind of gets him some more sedative as he's stirring, they claim that he had too much, you know. 00:44:13 Speaker 2 To drink, I think this is something specific. 00:44:17 Speaker 1 For now, I think yeah. 00:44:18 Speaker 2 OK. 00:44:19 Speaker 1 Right as they're about as they pass the security checkpoint, the security guard recognizes efrim from the sketch and calls Fulner, and that same security guard takes their landing permit. 00:44:31 Speaker 1 From the air traffic control tower. 00:44:34 Speaker 2 Yeah, so this is all very exciting. 00:44:36 Speaker 2 Very reminiscent of Argo, right? 00:44:38 Speaker 2 Just got to get the plane out. 00:44:39 Speaker 1 As they're on the plane, Malkin is apologizing to Hannah, but as and he's like, you know, we'll talk more up in the air. 00:44:47 Speaker 1 As they're you know, going back to their seats, Malkin notices that the engines have stopped. 00:44:53 Speaker 1 Have to make a stop over somewhere and filed. 00:44:56 Speaker 1 They've filed their landing permit, but it's now gone missing, which is suspicious. 00:45:00 Speaker 2 Garner, like, sabotaged them. 00:45:01 Speaker 2 We learned because he's handling that. 00:45:02 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, I know but for them. 00:45:03 Speaker 1 They don't know that, yeah? 00:45:05 Speaker 2 This is exciting. That's good. 00:45:07 Speaker 1 So they have to run the permit over to the air traffic control tower. 00:45:11 Speaker 1 Mulkin volunteers runs up the stairs. 00:45:13 Speaker 1 They said OK, they can go now or the next slot is in 15 minutes and as is happening mulkins can see the Nazis coming up to the planes as no go. 00:45:22 Speaker 1 Now I'll get out of there another way. 00:45:26 Speaker 2 I remember this was a criticism. 00:45:27 Speaker 2 At the time of the movie that there's this very dramatic moment where they leave him behind, but then he's just fine. 00:45:33 Speaker 1 I mean, he's a spy, he's he's. 00:45:35 Speaker 1 He can figure out his own way home. 00:45:37 Speaker 2 Yeah, I know, but it's not a big sacrifice. 00:45:40 Speaker 2 For him. 00:45:40 Speaker 1 I mean, it's supposed to be dramatic, but that doesn't necessarily need to. 00:45:43 Speaker 1 I mean, we also have the moment of the sacrifice of the other two guys. 00:45:46 Speaker 1 The Who one of them is a harooni, but like we just never see them again either. 00:45:47 Speaker 2 Right, who just catch up later? 00:45:53 Speaker 2 Yeah, well, they're fine. 00:45:54 Speaker 1 Yeah, I assume so too, so I wasn't really necessarily worried about him. 00:45:58 Speaker 1 I was just more of a. 00:45:59 Speaker 1 It's more of a. 00:45:59 Speaker 1 Dramatic tension but. 00:46:01 Speaker 1 But yeah, so the Nazis are stopped at the gate and Klaus tries to get through with a gun, doesn't. 00:46:08 Speaker 2 Yeah, Klaus is really into it. 00:46:09 Speaker 2 I mean, I guess it is his father slash uncle on the plane. 00:46:13 Speaker 1 Mulkin sees the plane take off and as they're in the air, the team on board has size of relief and one of the flight attendants you see him sort of having tears and you can see his Holocaust tattoo. 00:46:29 Speaker 1 So you get a little voiceover about Eichmann, you know being brought to Israel, we see that Sylvia's father is released and Raffi is watching as they return home. 00:46:43 Speaker 1 He grabs a Nazi flag seemingly out of storage and you know, climbs up onto his roof and puts it up there next to the Argentinian flag. 00:46:52 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think there was some kind of indication that, like oh, we're not going to stop. 00:46:58 Speaker 2 I don't think it's based in real life though. 00:47:00 Speaker 2 Based on what I recall the book. 00:47:03 Speaker 1 We see Eichmann in his cell and his wife coming to visit. 00:47:07 Speaker 1 So it means that Malkin kept his promise and we see Malkin at the trial of Eichmann and there's this big line to get in. 00:47:10 Speaker 2 Right? 00:47:15 Speaker 1 He doesn't have tickets, he just shows his ID. 00:47:18 Speaker 1 Right right back of the line. 00:47:19 Speaker 2 They're wearing these. 00:47:20 Speaker 2 Really ugly 60s suits, especially Raffi. 00:47:24 Speaker 2 OK, Nick Kroll looks really bad. 00:47:27 Speaker 1 No, I mean I I. 00:47:28 Speaker 1 Mean I actually like the look of Oscar Isaac suit. 00:47:32 Speaker 2 OK, what about Nick trolls? 00:47:33 Speaker 1 Alright, I'm waiting. 00:47:34 Speaker 1 I'm waiting for Nico. 00:47:35 Speaker 1 That's fine. 00:47:36 Speaker 1 It's just the 60s Scott. 00:47:41 Speaker 1 It doesn't look terrible. 00:47:43 Speaker 1 OK, fine, I don't. 00:47:45 Speaker 1 I don't know what you're seeing. 00:47:46 Speaker 1 I'm very cute now. 00:47:48 Speaker 1 They go in. 00:47:49 Speaker 1 They're showing film of or photos and film from the Holocaust, with Eichmann watching it behind the glass box. 00:47:57 Speaker 2 Do you know why he's in the glass box? 00:47:59 Speaker 1 I assume it's a bulletproof box, I don't know actually OK. 00:48:02 Speaker 2 Yeah, that's that's right. 00:48:03 Speaker 2 That's right. 00:48:04 Speaker 2 Yeah, to prevent someone from assassinating. 00:48:06 Speaker 1 Him, yeah, Mulkin takes a seat and sees Eichmann. 00:48:11 Speaker 1 The prosecution starts their case and at which point Eichmann notices Mulkin. 00:48:17 Speaker 1 And we can also see Sanna who is now pregnant with some other guy. 00:48:21 Speaker 2 Yep, I guess things didn't work out between them. 00:48:23 Speaker 1 Yeah, well they didn't get to have their big talk on on. 00:48:26 Speaker 1 The plane. 00:48:28 Speaker 1 So she moved on during a break. 00:48:31 Speaker 1 We see Malkin walking away. 00:48:33 Speaker 1 Raffi, you know, sees him ask if he's going back in and said no one will blame you if you didn't. 00:48:39 Speaker 1 You know. 00:48:39 Speaker 1 Just and then, if you'll just let it go. 00:48:42 Speaker 1 And Mulkin decides he's not going to go in and sees a vision of Fruma and her children. 00:48:47 Speaker 1 Sort of, you know. 00:48:48 Speaker 1 Walking through the forest. 00:48:50 Speaker 2 Moving on, you might say he's moving on. 00:48:53 Speaker 1 So he leaves and he doesn't go back in. 00:48:55 Speaker 1 And then we get some more text at the end. June 1, 1963. Adolf Eichmann was hanged, having been found guilty of transporting millions of people to their deaths. 00:49:04 Speaker 1 He was cremated in an oven built for the occasion and his ashes were spread in the sea so he would have might have no final place of rest. 00:49:12 Speaker 1 The trial was televised globally. 00:49:13 Speaker 1 It was the first time that eyewitness testimony of the Holocaust was seen by the world. 00:49:18 Speaker 1 Malkin kept the mission secret from his mother until she laid on her death bed. She said, I knew you wouldn't forget Fruma. Peter Malkin died in 2005, survived by his wife and children. 00:49:28 Speaker 2 So he did become a Family Guy family man which they talked about earlier in the movie. 00:49:33 Speaker 1 Yeah, and with that our movie ends. 00:49:36 Speaker 2 All right, OK, so I have a lot of spy fact versus fiction. 00:49:40 Speaker 2 If you want to go first. 00:49:41 Speaker 1 Sure, so one of the things I have first. 00:49:44 Speaker 1 Is the medication used to drug him was haloperidol with this from WebMD? 00:49:53 Speaker 1 It's actually used to treat certain mental mood disorders such as schizophrenia and psycho effective disorders. 00:50:01 Speaker 1 Medicine actually helps you think more clearly and feel less nervous and take part in everyday life. 00:50:05 Speaker 1 But presumably in higher doses it will also. 00:50:09 Speaker 1 To sedate you. 00:50:10 Speaker 2 Is a primitive 1960s knockout. 00:50:13 Speaker 1 Yeah, Speaking of Hannah, she is a fictional character who is modeled after Yona Elian, who is Israeli anesthesiologist and Holocaust survivor who was the one who actually survived or sedated Eichmann during the operation, and it's from Wikipedia, but there was a mention of her, well, Hannah. 00:50:33 Speaker 1 In the movie, but you you're not in real life saying that, you know she got someone killed in the movie. So this was based on a real life event where in 1954. 00:50:43 Speaker 1 Elian, who was a civilian anesthesiologist was recruited to sedate a Israeli officer accused of espionage espionage. 00:50:51 Speaker 1 His, whose name was Alexander Israel, when I was reading wait that doesn't make sense. 00:50:56 Speaker 2 Yeah, that's fine. 00:50:56 Speaker 1 He was confusing because Israel, being his last name anyway so he yeah Yona was recruited to. 00:51:03 Speaker 1 The date Israel out for a flight out of Rome. 00:51:08 Speaker 1 But the drugs inadvertently killed him. 00:51:10 Speaker 2 OK, I was wondering what they were referring to. 00:51:12 Speaker 2 In that part. 00:51:13 Speaker 1 Yeah, it was a reference to this incident in the real life, with Yona Elian. 00:51:18 Speaker 2 By the way, that is why Israel, the country's official name, is the state of Israel. And that's because to avoid getting mixed up with like Israel, the biblical character or the land of Israel or Israel come out comma Louie, the Hawaiian ukulele player. 00:51:28 Speaker 1 Right? 00:51:34 Speaker 1 Hamaka Viva Ole thank you. 00:51:38 Speaker 1 Oh man, so this is from Wikipedia. 00:51:42 Speaker 1 So the synonym, the name that I keep kept forgetting or forgetting how to pronounce. 00:51:47 Speaker 1 Are so Sanem or cyan in Hebrew means helpers or assistants they recruited to provide logistical support for Mossad operations. 00:51:57 Speaker 1 Yeah local Jewish or non Israeli citizens. 00:52:01 Speaker 2 That's all. 00:52:02 Speaker 1 Well, that's what I got from Wikipedia. 00:52:04 Speaker 2 OK, yeah, it's a little bit uncomfortable. 00:52:06 Speaker 2 The idea that they recruit local Jews because as you may recall from our Jonathan Pollard episode, it's a a stereotype about Jews is that they will undermine the countries they live in. 00:52:17 Speaker 2 And in this movie they literally do that now. 00:52:17 Speaker 1 Right? 00:52:19 Speaker 2 It's different when it's a military dictatorship like Argentina. 00:52:23 Speaker 1 And that there are literal Nazis. 00:52:25 Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know to what extent these guys are still used today or how much they were used back in the day. 00:52:30 Speaker 2 I hope they're not still used today. 00:52:33 Speaker 1 Doesn't say according to wiki Wikipedia, so I have no idea when they've grabbed him and they're escaping and they get past the checkpoint with the CD little tags, so those are actually diplomatic license plates. 00:52:45 Speaker 2 OK. 00:52:46 Speaker 1 And so CD the letters on it stand for a corpse diplomatique. 00:52:51 Speaker 1 So yeah, so just adding those little plates to the nowadays, the actual specific license plate by itself. 00:52:57 Speaker 1 It's not like you add those tags to another car. 00:53:00 Speaker 2 Right? 00:53:01 Speaker 1 Yeah, so and that's information from Wiki that I found on Wikipedia. 00:53:04 Speaker 2 Yeah, good thing for them. It's not dedicated plates because the CD's are probably a. 00:53:07 Speaker 2 Lot easier to get. 00:53:08 Speaker 1 Oh yeah, and that's what I've got. 00:53:11 Speaker 1 So what do you have? 00:53:12 Speaker 2 OK so I have quite a bit mostly actually think it's entirely from hunting like men, how abandoned survivors and a young spy agency chased down the world's most notorious Nazi by Neil Bascom. 00:53:23 Speaker 2 OK, so before the movie begins, there were a lot of attempts to find Eichmann and a lot of them lead nowhere like it just led down an empty trail and they lost the trail again. 00:53:33 Speaker 2 So do you know Simon Wiesenthal? 00:53:35 Speaker 2 So that is OK. 00:53:36 Speaker 2 So he's a famous Nazi hunter Holocaust survivor and there's a agency called the Simon Wiesenthal Center today that is anti anti-Semitism anti racism. 00:53:49 Speaker 2 So he searched for Eichmann for years and there's a couple of funny stories from that. 00:53:54 Speaker 2 So one time he was sitting his apartment looking at his list of names of people. 00:53:58 Speaker 2 He's only defined, and he underscored the name Eichmann because he learned about his role. 00:54:03 Speaker 2 So license laws, landlady entered to clean the room. 00:54:07 Speaker 2 She looked over her shoulder and said, hey, Ike. 00:54:08 Speaker 2 Men only that must be the s s General Aquin, who was in command of the Jews. Do you know that his parents live on this street? Just a few houses along at #32? 00:54:20 Speaker 2 So that was one right, and then another time Simon was he was searching. 00:54:25 Speaker 2 He was searching, he was searching and he was getting totally burned out. 00:54:28 Speaker 2 So his friends told him you need a hobby. 00:54:30 Speaker 2 How about stamp collecting? 00:54:32 Speaker 2 That's a very popular hobby so got into stamp collecting and he followed all these really obscure stamps. 00:54:38 Speaker 2 He did this thing at one time. 00:54:39 Speaker 2 He visited an Austrian. 00:54:41 Speaker 2 Darren to compare stamp collections and at one point the Baron gave him a letter from a Luftwaffe Colonel based in Argentina and Wiesenthal. 00:54:50 Speaker 2 Read what was inside. 00:54:51 Speaker 2 Right, because the bear was just like take a look at that stamp. 00:54:54 Speaker 2 That's like that. 00:54:54 Speaker 2 That's in Germany. 00:54:55 Speaker 2 Stamp pretty cool. 00:54:56 Speaker 2 So he found inside a note that said there are some people here we both used to know a few more are here, whom who you've never met. 00:55:04 Speaker 2 Imagine who else I saw and even had to talk to twice that awful swine Eichmann who commanded the Jews he lives near. 00:55:11 Speaker 2 In those areas it works for a water. 00:55:13 Speaker 2 Wow, how do you like that? 00:55:15 Speaker 2 The Baron said some of the worst of the lot got away and wasn't thought was like can. 00:55:19 Speaker 2 I borrow this letter. 00:55:22 Speaker 2 A Jersey Rabbi asked the CIA to help with the hunt for Ikemen, and they just said we are not in the business of apprehending war criminal. 00:55:30 Speaker 1 Hmm OK. 00:55:31 Speaker 2 But they said that even if they did find him, they just. 00:55:33 Speaker 2 Gave him to. 00:55:33 Speaker 2 West Germany but West Germany didn't want to put him on trial because they were highly placed ex Nazis in the current West German government. 00:55:42 Speaker 1 Current at the time. 00:55:43 Speaker 2 Yeah, it would just make everybody look bad, right? 00:55:46 Speaker 1 Right? 00:55:47 Speaker 2 So the part with the with the British. 00:55:49 Speaker 2 Army guys killing a Nazi in the movie that goes down slightly differently in real life. First of all, it took place in 1946, not 1954. I don't know why they changed it. 00:55:55 Speaker 1 OK. 00:56:00 Speaker 2 Right, and they found a house that Eichmann's wife and brother had visited and four men were living there. 00:56:06 Speaker 2 So they busted in and they grabbed one. 00:56:09 Speaker 2 They tossed the chief and drove away. 00:56:10 Speaker 2 We are Jews, Adolf like when one of them said we've got a big score to settle with you and their guy said he was a killer. 00:56:17 Speaker 2 I was only a soldier. 00:56:18 Speaker 2 You were good people show me mercy. 00:56:21 Speaker 2 And they said, you know how much mercy you show? 00:56:22 Speaker 2 Did the Jewish people, ultimately the president, admitted that he had killed some Jews, but only because? 00:56:29 Speaker 1 As he was following orders. 00:56:31 Speaker 2 That's right, and after a while though, he gave up and said all you can do is kill me. 00:56:36 Speaker 2 So they did. 00:56:38 Speaker 2 So that's how it went down. 00:56:39 Speaker 1 So interesting and I'm I did wonder in the movie whether that that was like that doesn't look like Eichmann, so I don't know if that that was supposed to be that same story that Eichmann was telling about how someone got mistaken for him, or if that was just a setup just to show Peter Malkin doing his job and also maybe not being the. 00:56:59 Speaker 1 Tested his 00:56:59 Speaker 2 Job right? I also felt like because they had in 1954 they showed that it took years and they weren't giving up and they were still going after them. 00:57:09 Speaker 1 Interesting OK continue. 00:57:11 Speaker 2 There's a part where they say we got a picture of you from one of your mistresses. 00:57:16 Speaker 2 German in the. 00:57:17 Speaker 2 Movie they were able to get that picture with the use of a Romeo spy agent. 00:57:22 Ah yes. 00:57:23 Speaker 2 So the Israelis use the local Argentinian named Juan to try to make contact with Nick Clement by having him pose as a messenger, trying to get a picture. 00:57:35 Speaker 2 Wade was looking. 00:57:36 Speaker 2 He was looking. 00:57:37 Speaker 2 It was looking and then reported back to his handler. 00:57:39 Speaker 2 We got the wrong guy. 00:57:40 Speaker 2 His name is Ikemen, not Clement. 00:57:45 Speaker 2 So his handler had to be like, oh. 00:57:46 Speaker 2 That's OK, you still did a. 00:57:47 Speaker 2 Good job, nice job that's. 00:57:49 Speaker 2 OK. 00:57:50 Speaker 2 Most of the agents were Shin Bet agents and not Mossad agents. 00:57:53 Speaker 2 And like you mentioned they were all men and they all look kind. 00:57:56 Speaker 2 Of similar 00:57:57 Speaker 2 There's a picture of them and you know I had trouble telling them apart. So Rafi Eitan, which was Nick Kroll's character. 00:58:05 Speaker 2 Had been nicknamed Rafi the stink. 00:58:08 Speaker 2 Because he crawled through a sewer system to blow up a British radar installation during Israel's War of Independence, he was inspired to be a spy. After seeing a movie about Motahari. 00:58:08 Speaker 1 OK. 00:58:19 Speaker 1 Oh, I wonder which Malhari film? 00:58:21 Speaker 2 So Raffi was also extremely nearsighted and wore coke bottle glasses that made his eyes seem to bulge out. 00:58:27 Speaker 2 Of his face. 00:58:28 Speaker 2 He was also deaf in his right ear, also from the war. 00:58:30 Speaker 1 Oh, OK. 00:58:32 Speaker 2 They were not there for 10 days, and all did not need a signed piece of paper in order to fly them out, so they always knew they were going to be there for a while. 00:58:38 Speaker 1 OK. 00:58:42 Speaker 2 And the 150th anniversary you were right about that they were always going to do that. 00:58:46 Speaker 2 That was all fine. There was a little bit I read it on historyofrosewood.com. They did want icon to sign a piece of paper, but it was just to confirm who he was. 00:58:56 Speaker 2 It wasn't like I was like we're not flying in him until you sign that there was anything like that I could. 00:59:01 Speaker 2 It was late on the day. 00:59:02 Speaker 2 The capture. 00:59:02 Speaker 2 Because he had a labor union meeting. 00:59:05 Speaker 1 OK. 00:59:06 Speaker 2 And the Israelis had to decide whether to keep waiting or stick it out, which they did. 00:59:09 Speaker 2 I don't have this written down, but I seem to remember from my memory of the book that the Nazis branded a Jewish girl with the swastika on her chest, but it was just some random person they were harassing to be *****, not a spy that they had. 00:59:21 Speaker 1 Oh, OK. 00:59:26 Speaker 2 And then the last thing that I got is on arrival. 00:59:30 Speaker 2 The plane had some problems. 00:59:32 Speaker 2 It almost crashed because the Brazilians use meters and not feet. 00:59:36 Speaker 1 Oh no. 00:59:36 Speaker 2 So when they came. 00:59:37 Speaker 2 Out the cloud cover they nearly hit the tree top and then on the way back they didn't want to stop from Brazil again. 00:59:44 Speaker 2 So they strained the plates. 00:59:45 Speaker 2 Engines to reach Uruguay so they could refuel. 00:59:48 Speaker 2 At one point, the pilot joked that they can't. 00:59:50 Speaker 2 Right asked for peoples lighters because they needed the extra fuel. 00:59:54 Speaker 2 That's a joke. 00:59:56 Speaker 2 And then the whole thing about the tower that was because of errors on the flight plan. 01:00:00 Speaker 1 Uh, so it wasn't because. 01:00:03 Speaker 1 There was a a secret Nazi in the in the airport. 01:00:06 Speaker 2 Right, that being said, they the police missed them by 1/2 an hour, so it was pretty darn close, but not as close as it was in the movie. 01:00:13 Speaker 2 And that is all. 01:00:13 Speaker 1 I have, for fact versus fiction alright, so that's by a fact versus by fiction. 01:00:18 Speaker 1 When we go into some favorite quotes, I'll go first. 01:00:22 Speaker 2 Yeah, this wasn't the most quotable movie, but we have some. 01:00:23 Speaker 1 I mean there are there are a lot of good well. 01:00:27 Speaker 1 A lot of jokes that were found for funny was like can I get away with telling Jewish jokes? 01:00:31 Speaker 1 I don't think so. 01:00:32 Speaker 2 Well, take a look and let's see. 01:00:34 Speaker 1 Well, I picked the. 01:00:35 Speaker 1 Ones that were basically not so. 01:00:36 Speaker 1 I mean, I do have the to be the perfect Nazi. 01:00:39 Speaker 1 You have to be as slim as Goring, as tall as gobbles. 01:00:41 Speaker 1 And as blonde. 01:00:41 Speaker 1 As Hitler, you know, Lyft isn't. 01:00:44 Speaker 1 Isn't is an Arab cheese, is it? 01:00:47 Speaker 1 I didn't ask to see its papers. 01:00:48 Speaker 2 That, I think was a little bit of a shot at the Israeli Government, probably. 01:00:53 Speaker 1 And then history. 01:00:54 Speaker 1 Remember, only remembers the tall people? 01:00:56 Speaker 1 What about Napoleon who? 01:00:58 Speaker 2 Yeah exactly yes. 01:01:00 Speaker 2 Nick Kroll got a lot of the good ones. 01:01:02 Speaker 2 I also have has someone broken the bad news to her yet about Sylvia being Jewish. 01:01:05 Speaker 1 Oh yeah. 01:01:07 Speaker 2 Someone says if you're looking, not everyone's as emotionally balanced as you are someone. 01:01:12 Speaker 2 He says about Peter Malkin. 01:01:14 Speaker 2 He lets everyone down so the whole thing with the Malkins character was a lot of telling and not showing unfortunately. 01:01:20 Speaker 1 Yeah, I think that's why that first scene was. 01:01:22 Speaker 1 There was supposed to show us that he you know he's not. 01:01:25 Speaker 1 The best at his job, but it didn't. 01:01:26 Speaker 1 Do it well enough, you didn't have enough. 01:01:28 Speaker 1 You have one thing of it, you don't have a whole thing of it, so yeah, you're right. 01:01:32 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's tough for these ones that are based on a true story to do character stuff because they are real people and it gets messy. 01:01:41 Speaker 2 I like to accept my fate and then finally that steak better be good. Yeah alright. So now it's time for ratings on a scale of 1 to 10 martinis, 1 being Avengers 1997 and 10 being even better than take it or no time to die. How would we write operations finally? 01:01:58 Speaker 1 Alright, you wanna go first? 01:01:59 Speaker 2 Uh, sure so. 01:02:00 Speaker 2 Well, it's more accurate than I remembered having read the book, so that was pretty darn good. 01:02:06 Speaker 2 I was I was constantly. 01:02:08 Speaker 2 Like oh, they did this ohh they did this ohh. 01:02:09 Speaker 2 They did this, that's neat. 01:02:11 Speaker 2 But they have the Argo problem, where a spy operation that went really well. 01:02:19 Speaker 2 They had to fluff it. 01:02:19 Speaker 1 Doesn't have, yeah they have to add more tension. 01:02:23 Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly so it was pretty good. 01:02:26 Speaker 2 And it wasn't great. I do like Israel stuff that pushes up slightly. I will give it a 6 1/2 out of 10. 01:02:32 Speaker 1 Alright, yeah, I think I'm right there with you like I it, I remember enjoying it. 01:02:37 Speaker 1 You know the machinations of it when I watched it in the first time. 01:02:40 Speaker 1 Second time was, you know, I like had the memory of what was happened, but I was like I didn't exact. 01:02:45 Speaker 1 I mean, I knew they got Eichmann out with the whole process of it. 01:02:48 Speaker 1 I couldn't remember all of the details and. 01:02:51 Speaker 1 You know the fact you said it's mostly accurate. 01:02:53 Speaker 1 You know some inaccuracies there. 01:02:56 Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm going to give it. 01:02:57 Speaker 1 I'm just slightly up higher than you. 01:02:59 Speaker 1 I'm going to give. 01:02:59 Speaker 1 A7 Out of 10 martinis. 01:03:01 Speaker 2 OK, yeah, we seem to think it was like. 01:03:02 Speaker 2 Pretty good, OK? 01:03:03 Speaker 1 Yeah, alrighty, and with that that ends our coverage of operation finale. 01:03:10 Speaker 1 Anything else you want to talk about? 01:03:12 Speaker 2 Nope, that's all. 01:03:13 Speaker 2 Thank you all for joining us. 01:03:14 Speaker 1 You can find us on social media at the Spotify guys on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. 01:03:19 Speaker 1 Until next time I'm Christian. 01:03:20 Speaker 2 And I'm Zach. 01:03:22 Speaker 1 We are the Spotify guys signing off. 01:03:28 Speaker 1 Thank you for listening to the Spotify guys. 01:03:30 Speaker 1 If you enjoyed our podcast, please be sure to give us a 5 star rating on iTunes. 01:03:35 Speaker 1 The theme song from this podcast is mistake to get away by Kevin MacLeod from incompetech.com, licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0 films, books and television shows reviewed by our podcast. 01:03:49 Speaker 1 Are the intellectual property of their respective copyright holders, and no infringement is intended. 01:03:54 Speaker 2 This is a personal podcast. 01:03:56 Speaker 2 Any views, statements or opinions expressed in this podcast are personal and belongs solely to the participants. 01:04:02 Speaker 2 They do not represent those of people, institutions, or organizations that the participants may or may not be associated with in a professional or personal capacity unless explicitly stated. 01:04:13 Speaker 2 Any views or opinions are not intended to malign. 01:04:15 Speaker 2 Any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company or individual. 01:04:19 Speaker 1 You can find our podcast on social media at the Spotify guys on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.